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A top-grossing scam on the App Store

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Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#211

Post by abstract_put »

simonh wrote: post #108
tolmasky wrote: post #54

Apple has just engineered the worst possible situation for themselves by being the only way to get apps on the store and by simultaneously incessantly marketing the store as "Safe and Secure". The former encourages them to maximize the number of apps on the store, while the latter encourages them to shoot first and ask questions later. If side-loading or alternative ways of getting apps onto the iPhone existed, then…

How would the security model work with side loaded apps. How would they get access to OS resources, services and share data with other apps, e.g through the clipboard? Who would verify them against malware, or ensure they didn’t violate security constraints? It’s not like Apple could disavow all responsibility for any data leaked from the system, a lot of users simply wouldn’t see it that way. There’s a lot wrong wit…

Would this be significantly different than desktop apps? It seems like we have decades of experience solving (and failing) to solve this in the desktop world.

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#212

Post by darksaints »

coldtea wrote: post #126
tolmasky wrote: post #54

Apple has just engineered the worst possible situation for themselves by being the only way to get apps on the store and by simultaneously incessantly marketing the store as "Safe and Secure". The former encourages them to maximize the number of apps on the store, while the latter encourages them to shoot first and ask questions later. If side-loading or alternative ways of getting apps onto the iPhone existed, then…

> If side-loading or alternative ways of getting apps onto the iPhone existed, then they could implement far stricter controls knowing that, worst case scenario, you can still get an app onto the iPhone. This is how it works on the Mac. Tor isn't on the Mac App Store, but that of course doesn't mean Tor can't be used on the Mac. And if side-loading was alowed then every big player whose app users "have to have", e.g.…

Being able to install whatever I want to install sounds pretty nice. Almost like an actual computer.

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#213

Post by darepublic »

metalliqaz wrote: post #159
coldtea wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If side-loading or alternative ways of getting apps onto the iPhone existed, then they could implement far stricter controls knowing that, worst case scenario, you can still get an app onto the iPhone. This is how it works on the Mac. Tor isn't on the Mac App Store, but that of course doesn't mean Tor can't be used on the Mac. And if side-loading was alowed then every big player whose app users "have to have", e.g.…

Android allows side loading and none of that stuff is an issue on Android. It exists, but it's not an issue. You can easily stay in the Play store, but if you choose not to... caveat emptor.

Caveat emptor if you choose to stay on the Play store as well

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#214

Post by viraptor »

zepto wrote: post #198
metalliqaz wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android allows side loading and none of that stuff is an issue on Android. It exists, but it's not an issue. You can easily stay in the Play store, but if you choose not to... caveat emptor.

Android doesn’t allow first class alternative stores.

What makes Amazon app store and f-droid not first class?

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#215

Post by [deleted] »

coldtea wrote: post #126
tolmasky wrote: post #54

Apple has just engineered the worst possible situation for themselves by being the only way to get apps on the store and by simultaneously incessantly marketing the store as "Safe and Secure". The former encourages them to maximize the number of apps on the store, while the latter encourages them to shoot first and ask questions later. If side-loading or alternative ways of getting apps onto the iPhone existed, then…

> If side-loading or alternative ways of getting apps onto the iPhone existed, then they could implement far stricter controls knowing that, worst case scenario, you can still get an app onto the iPhone. This is how it works on the Mac. Tor isn't on the Mac App Store, but that of course doesn't mean Tor can't be used on the Mac. And if side-loading was alowed then every big player whose app users "have to have", e.g.…

[deleted]

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#216

Post by zepto »

Apocryphon wrote: post #205
zepto wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously not, because the Mac has only ever had minor sales relative to the PC even, and minuscule compared to iOS. It’s never been a serious target.

Your Apple bashing is really quite tiresome. Macs are serious machines and have grown in leaps and bounds over the past two decades. Are you seriously saying the de facto development platform for Silicon Valley startups, as well as the home for Apple Silicon, is no longer a “serious target”? No need to shill for Windows here.

It’s not a serious target for App Store scams, or scam software in general, because the user base is tiny compared to iOS.

I think you know this.

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#218

Post by _carbyau_ »

zepto wrote: post #217
viraptor wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes Amazon app store and f-droid not first class?

No automatic software updates.

With my current android phone, I have deliberately limited what I put on it. I got so sick of update churn.

Together with app owners selling out to malware types, and I see a lack of updates as a blessing.

I want to buy an app version and use that app version until I decide otherwise.

Ideally, when I run an app, inform me there is an update, let me know the benefits, and let me decide if I want to install or not, before or after using the app on this occasion.

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#219

Post by Aeolun »

tolmasky wrote: post #54

Apple has just engineered the worst possible situation for themselves by being the only way to get apps on the store and by simultaneously incessantly marketing the store as "Safe and Secure". The former encourages them to maximize the number of apps on the store, while the latter encourages them to shoot first and ask questions later. If side-loading or alternative ways of getting apps onto the iPhone existed, then…

> Safe and Secure

Safe and secure maybe, but it’s safe and secure garbage. It’s mind blowing how shitty most apps on the store are.

I want to go back to the iPhone 1 app store, where literally every app was a jewel.

Re: A top-grossing scam on the App Store

#220

Post by Apocryphon »

zepto wrote: post #209
Apocryphon wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This as you must be aware, is because first class alternative stores are not possible on Android. No one is mandating first class alternative stores on iOS, merely the ability to download apps from third party stores or to sideload .ipa files. > This is made up and has no validity. Your Apple bashing is baseless and has no place in a reasoned discussion such as this. > More fantasy. After years of public statements…

> No one is mandating first class alternative stores on iOS That’s exactly what Epic, for example is asking for. >> Nobody in history has ever produced a perfectly secure operating system. > It is clear from this discussion that you are not a fan of Apple. Please seek to reduce your own bias when attempting to have a serious conversation. If I was wrong, you’d have been able to respond with an example. > When was the…

> That’s exactly what Epic, for example is asking for.

And most would be satisfied with less.

> If I was wrong, you’d have been able to respond with an example.

Qubes OS.

> Last time was the EBook settlement.

That was over five years ago.

> I guess you aren’t aware of Epic’s case.

Epic's case isn't getting very far and it's quite possible that it would not have arisen at all if Apple had shown any interest at all at managing it's own opening rather than putting itself at risk of being opened by others.

> Erm, you do realize that these technologies have nothing to do with preventing scam apps in stores, right?

Sure they do. They are all examples of products that are differentiated from others in the same space by their focus on security. Thus, in the realm of competing app stores, there could be stores that exist that focus on secure, privacy-focused apps, just as there are already app stores such as F-Droid that differentiate themselves by focusing on FOSS apps.

One could reasonably expect that if iOS supported multiple app stores, there would be stores that tried to focus on the luxury high-end aspect of the platform by offering carefully curation. Third-party app curation services already exist.

> The counterclaim, that a single scam free store would have all of the apps in it is obviously false because the premise is a future with multiple stores.

Actually, the simplest counterclaim is to point at the current and past existence of alternate app stores such as Cydia or the Altstore, which do in fact contain apps that customers want anyway.

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