Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're getting lots of replies from (I presume) Americans, who are used to much scammier business behavior than what I know from Germany and you describe in Australia. One related example is the pervasive practice in America of displaying a price without fees (like "resort fees" for hotels that can be +50%) and of course taxes, with the actual price only becoming apparent after additional effort is invested in the ch…
This is precisely why it's unlikely any regulation will occur to stop this at the source. As long as American customers are happy to bend over to shady business practices by dominant American businesses, the rest of the world will keep experiencing the knock-on effects of this behaviour.
Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee
211–220 of 603 posts
Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee
#212e.g. if monthly is $10 and yearly/m is $8, and I decide to cancel after only 7 months, Adobe should just charge me $14 ($2*7).
Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee
#213Is this really a cancellation fee or is it just honoring your contract? AFAIK it's very clear on Adobe's page that your options are (1) Annual plan paid monthly, (2) Annual plan prepaid, and depending on the product (3) Monthly plan at usually 150% higher price. https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html If you signed up for a yearly plan paid monthly, the cancellation fee is finishing your contract. If you didn'…
No, it’s the opposite of very clear? It’s very misleading. They are purposefully avoiding printing the full sum they expect you to pay, just listing monthly prices without mentioning the terms, and a big “buy now” button.
I understand that you should never take anything related to pricing at face value, and I would certainly double check what I get myself into before I sign up, but calling it “very clear” just doesn’t add up.
Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee
#214Is this really a cancellation fee or is it just honoring your contract? AFAIK it's very clear on Adobe's page that your options are (1) Annual plan paid monthly, (2) Annual plan prepaid, and depending on the product (3) Monthly plan at usually 150% higher price. https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html If you signed up for a yearly plan paid monthly, the cancellation fee is finishing your contract. If you didn'…
Legally, companies can do things like this. But I think it's a sure way to spread negative image, and never got those users again. They should think and act as building services to help the users, rather than extracting money. Even though part of a business is extracting money.
It's past time that consumers in the US realized their utter lack of power as individuals against corporations, and their collective might. The 'dark patterns' in online commerce, car loans, mobile payments etc are really 19th century business practices that shouldn't be accepted anymore.
Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee
#215I understand why companies like to do this. I get it. However, if we went along with every single one of these transitions to monthly subscription models we would bleed money every month unnecessarily.
What happened since then? The CS6 suite works just fine. Tools such as GIMP have become better and better. There are a number of good video editors, file converters and other tools out there.
We used to also update our Corel tools every year. Now they want subscription. We are done with Core.
The next victim will be Altium Designer. We have probably put somewhere in the order of $30K per license into this tool over the years. Annual maintenance is in the order of $1,500 to $1,800 (can't remember). No more. I have decided we are going to switch to KiCAD by the end of the year and donate half of our Altium maintenance fee towards KiCAD development (as well as contribute with software development if we have the time).
It isn't that I have a problem with subscriptions. We subscribe to Jetbrains tools and will continue to do so. It's more of a question of what you get incrementally for your money. And, in addition to this, getting cutoff if you stop paying.
As everyone on the planet knows by now, shit can happen that can put a serious kink into your finances. The old model meant that we could keep using our software until things got better and update when it made sense. As an example, we've done this kind of thing with Solidworks. Went a couple of years without updates and then updated all seats to the latest version when it made sense.
The Jetbrains subscription model is great. If you stop your subscription you revert back to the version from one year ago (I may not have put that exactly right, but it's close). That's fair. I can work with that. If I need to save money for any reason at all I can put it on ice, keep working and get updated back to the current version when it makes sense.
Adobe and others seem to be very different, brutally so. If you stop paying you lose your ability to work. To repeat myself, that is brutally painful. Others have things like cutting your off from bug fixes to even your last licensed version and cutting you off from accessing their peer-to-peer support forum.
I can't claim to know the internals of their business equation. All I know is that, as a customer, I dislike monthly subscriptions that cut you off like and make the very tools you need to do your job evaporate instantly. That, I think, is wrong.
These are tools. I need to own my tools. That's why I buy equipment instead of leasing it.
Did Adobe change? Do you get to keep and use any version of the software at all if you stop paying?
I believe Microsoft Office 360 is the same.
I know this kind of software can be a tough business due to piracy.
Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee
#216Is this really a cancellation fee or is it just honoring your contract? AFAIK it's very clear on Adobe's page that your options are (1) Annual plan paid monthly, (2) Annual plan prepaid, and depending on the product (3) Monthly plan at usually 150% higher price. https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html If you signed up for a yearly plan paid monthly, the cancellation fee is finishing your contract. If you didn'…
This is disingenuous at best, and fraudulent at worst - and I know ACCC in Australia will take a very dim view. Take the main page for instance, the one you linked - it lists monthly prices. No mention whatsoever of "annual pricing paid monthly" - it's JUST monthly mentioned. Pic: https://imgur.com/sZPfFDI When you click "See plans and pricing details" it gives you the Annual monthly and ACTUAL monthly prices. Pic: h…
This is not 75th page on the user agreement, it's the first word in the product name he is trying to buy.
Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
To me this is a very intuitive presentation of pricing, so not sure what you are referring to as a dark pattern. There are three clearly laid-out options: 1. No contract, pay monthly 2. Annual contract, pay monthly (cheaper than 1) 3. Annual contract, pay in one go (cheaper than 1 & 2) You pick one of the three options and check out. Where exactly is the confusion?
It's only clear in 1 of the pictures I shared. That is on the "Plans and Details" page. It's "clear enough" in the other. That is on the Buy Now page. The price is listed as annualized and the REAL monthly price is hidden from view under a drop-down. This is an acceptably deceptive UX practice for pricing. I can give some room for shitty tactics, this is it. However - it's not clear at all in the first picture I shar…
Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
True, my views are non-American. For example when I go to a convenience store, I pay the price listed on the item. I don't have to do math in my head that's +x% sales or state tax. That type of practice just isn't acceptable anywhere else.
> I don't have to do math in my head that's +x% sales or state tax. That type of practice just isn't acceptable anywhere else. Oblig: sales/retail taxes in the US vary city-by-city. While just like the rest of the world: US companies put their MSRP on products - but it would be unfair to expect retailers to charge the MSRP and eat the tax themselves because some areas have zero sales tax but others have a 10% tax. Th…
Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
My issue is Adobe never shows the total you will pay over 12 months for the ‘annual/paid monthly plan’, nor do they show the cancel fee. They could be clear and upfront with it, but aren’t... can’t imagine why.
It goes month to month after 12 months, it doesn't stop, but I grant you sure they could make their own deals sound less appealing, but without a law forcing them too, they aren't going to. This right below the button you press to start your subscription. By clicking "Agree and subscribe," you agree: You will be charged US$52.99 (plus tax) monthly and at the end of your one-year term, your subscription will automatic…
> “ Your subscription will automatically renew annually without notice until you cancel. You authorize us to store your payment method(s) and to automatically charge your payment method(s) every month until you cancel. We will automatically charge you the then-current rate for your plan, plus applicable taxes (such as VAT or GST if the rate does not include it), every month of your annual contract until you cancel.”
Adobe will renew it for another year at whatever rate they choose without notice.
I agree people should be more responsible in general with contracts, but it should be standardised. Australia’s design for the critical information sheet is great, it clearly shows what your paying, for how long, and for what. It’s got a similar design across companies too.
I believe with any contract that involves money over time, the total amount (including any fees) should be clear. I don’t think Adobe has made them clear.
I do note that the contract terms differ country to country so this might be more/less applicable to some. The part you quoted seems more reasonable.
Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee
#220Is this really a cancellation fee or is it just honoring your contract? AFAIK it's very clear on Adobe's page that your options are (1) Annual plan paid monthly, (2) Annual plan prepaid, and depending on the product (3) Monthly plan at usually 150% higher price. https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html If you signed up for a yearly plan paid monthly, the cancellation fee is finishing your contract. If you didn'…
If you have an annual subscription and cancel it early, they will charge you the elapsed months accordingly to the monthly fee, not the yearly one and I had to pay 150 Euros for early contract termination.