Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee • Hacker News Board

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#181

Post by Aeolun » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:08 AM UTC

radicalriddler wrote: post #126

radicalriddler wrote: post #118

This has happened for years! It's not some new terrible thing. You sign up for an annual subscription, paying monthly installments. They give you the option to pay half of it out if you want to cancel, it's no different than a 12 month phone plan in places like Australia. God I hate Twitter. People on their are so used to only reading 150 characters, that it's started affecting them in their daily life, that they're…

Adding onto this. The actual shitty thing that people should be complaining about, is that the subscription auto-renews (unless I missed the checkbox) and I couldn't find a way to cancel it pre-emptively, outside of blocking it at the bank level, otherwise it signed me up for another 12 months.

Yeah, I agree that is the truly shitty thing here. You should be able to cancel, but still pay until your contract runs out.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#182

Post by Aeolun » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:10 AM UTC

irjustin wrote: post #135

radicalriddler wrote: post #118

This has happened for years! It's not some new terrible thing. You sign up for an annual subscription, paying monthly installments. They give you the option to pay half of it out if you want to cancel, it's no different than a 12 month phone plan in places like Australia. God I hate Twitter. People on their are so used to only reading 150 characters, that it's started affecting them in their daily life, that they're…

While I agree it is "in the contract" it's not SUPER obvious that there is an early cancellation fee during the checkout process. If there was a separate box or better, a popup modal/page, that explains this, I'd give Adobe the benefit of the doubt. The problem is patterning - _a lot_ other companies monthly subscriptions don't have 50% annual cancellation fee or any cancellation fee. So this method of 'lowering the…

I dunno, if someone presents me with two options:

- Annual plan, paid monthly: $50 / month

- Monthly plan: $75 / month

Then of course there is going to be a catch to the first one. I cannot imagine anyone being so naive they’d just assume both plans are the same aside from the price...

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#183

Post by DominikPeters » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:13 AM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #127

paxys wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are stretching the definition of convoluted. Offering discounts for signing a longer-term contract is standard practice in every industry. Don't need to be a lawyer to figure that out.

There is no reason to give billion dollar companies with a staff of thousands of full time workers which have meetings in which professional designers meet with professional decision makers to approve of each step in a web store before it goes live the benefit of the doubt instead of the customer who spends 2 minutes in a web form. If it looks dishonest it probably is. On this page https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud…

Even if you bother to read the small print, it appears to be written to be deliberately misleading. Instead of positively saying that one enters an annual commitment, it only says that there is "No annual commitment required after the first year". "Cancel anytime" suggests you can stop your contract, not that you have the option to pre-pay the remaining months and forfeit your access.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#184

Post by ilaksh » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:16 AM UTC

defterGoose wrote: post #140

gnicholas wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, this isn't always bulletproof. I got a new card number from my bank a couple years ago and was still charged for a subscription I had set up prior to that. I know the company involved wasn't doing anything shady because I run the company. I emailed Stripe (my payment processor) to find out how my subscription had migrated to the new card and they said that the feature had been added some time back. So even if yo…

Had this happen with an LA fitness membership a few years back. After spending hours trying to jump through their hoops to cancel, i got fed up and requested a new Visa card from WF. Well, Visa in all its wisdom decided to give my new number to the vendor without my permission or knowledge, and because i happened to not check my statement for several months, was charged a few hundred dollars for a gym membership i wa…

Well, I would like to submit that we should not need a third party like Visa to do digital payments.

Because now we have math and computers. I am looking forward to Ethereum scaling out with 2.0.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#185

Post by morsch » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:19 AM UTC

d110af5ccf wrote: post #174

dunnevens wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you lease an apartment or a car, the monthly rate stated is usually the actual month-to-month cost. They don't demand a full year in advance to get the stated cost, or increase the monthly cost because you didn't pay for a year upfront. That's why this pricing feels dishonest, even if it's technically true. Other companies handle it much more fairly. If you want to subscribe to World of Warcraft, Blizzard makes…

> They don't demand a full year in advance to get the stated cost, or increase the monthly cost because you didn't pay for a year upfront. In my experience, typical apartment leases are offered on a 12 month basis. Month to month is usually substantially more expensive. If you break a 12 month lease early, you're legally on the hook for whatever the contract specifies (typically the entire year in my experience). Mos…

Wow, I'm glad this isn't how it works where I live.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#186

Post by DominikPeters » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:20 AM UTC

Mandatum wrote: post #61

greggman3 wrote: post #50

Is this really a cancellation fee or is it just honoring your contract? AFAIK it's very clear on Adobe's page that your options are (1) Annual plan paid monthly, (2) Annual plan prepaid, and depending on the product (3) Monthly plan at usually 150% higher price. https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html If you signed up for a yearly plan paid monthly, the cancellation fee is finishing your contract. If you didn'…

This is disingenuous at best, and fraudulent at worst - and I know ACCC in Australia will take a very dim view. Take the main page for instance, the one you linked - it lists monthly prices. No mention whatsoever of "annual pricing paid monthly" - it's JUST monthly mentioned. Pic: https://imgur.com/sZPfFDI When you click "See plans and pricing details" it gives you the Annual monthly and ACTUAL monthly prices. Pic: h…

You're getting lots of replies from (I presume) Americans, who are used to much scammier business behavior than what I know from Germany and you describe in Australia. One related example is the pervasive practice in America of displaying a price without fees (like "resort fees" for hotels that can be +50%) and of course taxes, with the actual price only becoming apparent after additional effort is invested in the checkout process.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#187

Post by mitchdoogle » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:23 AM UTC

sk5t wrote: post #114

deathanatos wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first screenshot in the comment you're replying to says the price is "$52.99/mo". A reasonable person would look at that and conclude that if they purchased the product for 1 month, they would pay $52.99. But it seems (from the other, subsequent screenshots) that the actual cost Adobe would charge is $635.88. (That $52.99/mo, for a year.) It is only on subsequent screens that the bait and switch becomes visible.…

Automobile leases, apartments, and the like are listed with monthly rates, but your commitment to pay is longer than one month. What's the difference?

An apartment (at least in the US) is well understood to be a yearly lease. Software purchasing not. Similar software may be priced monthly, annually, everything upfront, or even free. If you put a price and list it as monthly and neglect to mention anywhere that it requires a year agreement, then it's an obvious dark pattern. You know it is because they easily could add "annual contract required" underneath, like most others do when they show annual pricing as a monthly rate (IME).

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#188

Post by speedgoose » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:23 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #166

8128js8121 wrote: post #88

people complaining about breaking contracts. really?

When the contracts are arbitrary ways to take advantage of people? And are promoted in a misleading fashion? You bet.

It may have been different a long time ago but I don't think Adobe is misleading if you want to subscribe. It's pretty clear it's an annual contract with a monthly payment.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#189

Post by Mandatum » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:25 AM UTC

DominikPeters wrote: post #186

Mandatum wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is disingenuous at best, and fraudulent at worst - and I know ACCC in Australia will take a very dim view. Take the main page for instance, the one you linked - it lists monthly prices. No mention whatsoever of "annual pricing paid monthly" - it's JUST monthly mentioned. Pic: https://imgur.com/sZPfFDI When you click "See plans and pricing details" it gives you the Annual monthly and ACTUAL monthly prices. Pic: h…

You're getting lots of replies from (I presume) Americans, who are used to much scammier business behavior than what I know from Germany and you describe in Australia. One related example is the pervasive practice in America of displaying a price without fees (like "resort fees" for hotels that can be +50%) and of course taxes, with the actual price only becoming apparent after additional effort is invested in the ch…

True, my views are non-American. For example when I go to a convenience store, I pay the price listed on the item. I don't have to do math in my head that's +x% sales or state tax. That type of practice just isn't acceptable anywhere else.

Re: Adobe charges subscription cancellation fee

#190

Post by bigyikes » Tue, Apr 13, 2021, 5:30 AM UTC

Adobe is simply advertising their most affordable price. The options are clearly labeled at selection. They do not try to trick you. The way I see it, there are 3 possible alternatives to the current arrangement:

1) Adobe stops offering the annual paid monthly plan. This sucks because the consumer gets fewer options.

2) Adobe advertises the price of the true monthly plan. This sucks because Adobe is unable to advertise what, for many, is their best deal. If I intend to use this software for more than a year, which is a very common use case, then I want to know the best price on a long term basis.

3) Adobe keeps the advertised price as-is, but must add some kind of disclaimer or note which indicates the terms. I think this is pretty reasonable, and maybe should be implemented. Still, this sucks a little bit, not just because it’s more legal red tape, but also because it is visual noise in the same vein as the © and ® symbols.