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Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

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Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is a good enough reason to expect people to work on the weekend? Kids are not some tamagotchi pet that exists as it is for a long time... kids are constantly growing and if you blink, you miss it. Some people would rather spend their weekends with their kids for purposes other than just keeping them alive.

I'm not advocating we work full weekends, but I'm not sure why I would not have a few hours for myself and do things that don't involve my kids. Some weekend's it would be work but other weekend's it might be something else, but it surely doesn't have to be 24/2 just kids kids? Of course if you blink you miss them, it's not like you're in a cave across the world, you're probably literally in the next room staring at…

If spending your free time on the weekend working doesn't sound awful to you, I think we're just very different people.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#212
I sincerely wish him luck. It was a blunt, forthright essay. Lots of self-revelation, and he didn't sugarcoat anything. I don't know the chap, but, from what I read, the essay seems to fit his personality.

I might not enjoy working for him (but I could be wrong -I often am), but I completely sympathize with him, and his essay gave me a good window into the current SV mindset. I am glad to read his empathy for folks that don't have it as good as he does, and I suspect he has it pretty good. I don't encounter that kind of awareness too often, and it's nice to hear, from a C-level. He seems to have both feet planted firmly on the ground.

I worked for some fairly "stolid" corporations, for most of my career. It was not a particularly enjoyable experience, the whole time, but it taught me a lot of things about Integrity, Loyalty, personal Honor and Consistency. I was never paid FAANG wages, but was, nevertheless, able to build up enough of a "nest egg" to get to the point where I don't need to work, if I don't want to. I'm currently working with a 501(c)(3) startup, not making a dime, and working harder than I ever have in my life.

And loving it. I currently feel as if it has all been worth it.

The thing that really bothers me, is that the entire tech industry is now built around engineers remaining at a company for 18 months. I was talking to a Facebook manager, some time ago, and he was boasting about being at FB for longer than he had ever worked anywhere.

"How long was that?" I asked.

"27 months."

I worked at my last company for 27 years. It has drawn a lot of sneers from current SV denizens, but I'm proud of my record. I went places that people have no concept of. I worked at a level of trust, for a conservative, classic Japanese corporation, that few Americans ever experience, and my tenacity and Integrity had a lot to do with it.

When high turnover is endemic, it has a huge impact on architecture, corporate culture, productivity, hiring, and, at the end of it all, product quality.

I tend to design fairly large, heterodox, infrastructure systems. They take months and years to develop and refine, and I expect them to last for years. I have written software architectures that are still in use after 25 years (albeit greatly changed).

In my experience, "letting go" is vital. I spent ten years developing and refining a project that I turned over to a new team, about three years ago, and walked away completely, so they don't have the "Grandpa can't let go" thing happening. They have done very, very well. My being there would have destroyed a decade's worth of work. Instead, they built out my infrastructure into something amazing.

Walking away also gave me the luxury of working on new stuff. I'm in the middle of refactoring a server system that I wrote two years ago. It lay fallow until the project I'm working on now, and it has aged very, very well. I look forward to, one day, turning it all over to someone else, and walking away to new horizons.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the author is correct that some big tech companies create a culture where going to 11am yoga is more important that crunching out a few more lines of code. He's correct that if your focus is on building and scaling product, this culture reduces the velocity of change. However, I see a couple of things the author is missing: 1) Work life balance is about employee long term retention and places like Google spen…

He's giving a few examples for work-life balance and I have completely different feelings about - from the 11 AM Yoga class (pretty ridiculous IMO) to taking a personal day (reasonable, people need their day off, maybe the personal day is for an urgent medical check-up?) to working during the weekend (unless the entire service is down and I'm the oncall, it can wait).

Why are several people denigrating the 11am mindfulness session?

We're not going to talk about people showing up to work on acid to perform but make fun of people out of college taking advantage of the mental health and exercise course offered on site for an hour, and then excuse an entiiiiire personal day just because its ... more familiar?

oooookay.

just a perspective.

this manager didn't know how to schedule his workers, and couldn't calibrate it and chose to go with "entitled young people are the problem" just like people probably said about him and millennials, there's nothing more to read into this article.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#214
post #24

Another "leader" who complains about employees wanting work life balance and they are extremely entitled. These are the type of managers you want to avoid. I'm sure many Googlers are happy you left.

It is not a fake problem. Of course, working hard all the time is not a badge to be worn and is not by itself an end, but it's also true that SV tech community is filled to the brim with people thinking very highly of themselves when the reality is they don't contribute much. What the author is asking for is that employees take a degree of personal responsibility without needing to give up on a concept of personal li…

There's definitely a pendulum with degrees of difference. I've been called militant before at work because I showed up on time, worked while at work, and went home when the day was over. I just call it being professional to not goof off all day.

It seems like what's happened (like in a lot of society) is that extremes have formed. Either people are in the work 24/7 camp or play frisbee golf all day camp. Whatever happened to simply being professional?

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#215
I work in big tech. Not Google. This is one of the best blog posts I have read about big tech. I agree with most things. The most important one is the wrong optimization for promotion. People would happily push something complicated and unnecessary to production just because it can help them to get promoted later on (by showing fake impact). The other thing I strongly agree with is working on things that don't add value to users but rather to follow company guidelines. But it's hard to avoid this one. Finally, moving very slowly due to complex systems and so many teams that need to get involved in making change. In the end most employees end up exactly as described in the post - staying because of the amazing salary and benefits, contributing less and less as time goes by.

Regarding firing people. From my experience it's doable but takes a long time. That's why offloading an employee to another team is usually easier.

With all that being said, I still think for most people who work for someone else, big tech is better than startups once you're experienced. If you don't work for yourself than optimizing for money is a reasonable thing to do.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't believe long hours are a badge of honor but I also believe that we have to do whatever it takes to win, even if its on a weekend." lmao what a terrible, horrible manager. I would hate working for them, and I would not miss them leaving. Maybe I'm just playing into their "young people don't want to work" stereotype, but if that's what working means, I don't want to do it with them.

"I don't believe long hours are a badge of honor but I also believe that we have to do whatever it takes to win, even if its on a weekend." Especially when said "doing" is done by other people (engineers, testers,SREs etc) , not the manager. Easy enough to hold such beliefs when the cost is paid by others.

Literally like Shrek: "Some of you may lose your weekends, but that's a price I'm willing to pay..."

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#217
post #24

Another "leader" who complains about employees wanting work life balance and they are extremely entitled. These are the type of managers you want to avoid. I'm sure many Googlers are happy you left.

Or the people who complain about work-life balance and sushi are the kind of people you would not want to be in the trenches with in any sort of challenge.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the author is correct that some big tech companies create a culture where going to 11am yoga is more important that crunching out a few more lines of code. He's correct that if your focus is on building and scaling product, this culture reduces the velocity of change. However, I see a couple of things the author is missing: 1) Work life balance is about employee long term retention and places like Google spen…

Another glaring omission - he’s now sitting on 7 years of savings from his Google manager salary & equity. If you have a few million dollars in the bank it’s much easier to take the pay cut to work at a smaller startup and chase a more high risk/high reward outcome. It’s completely out of touch to judge anyone for wanting a stable and in the scheme of things ridiculously high paying job with good work life balance, l…

This is also part of the argument for basic income. Having a stable source of income allows people to take risks like starting their own business or joining a small startup.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#219
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they really complained about not getting compensated for buying their own food during lockdown I think "entitled" is a fair descriptor. This is the first time I've read one of these blogs where the author complains about it being "practically impossible to fire someone". To me, that adds an air of authenticity to the complaining. In my experience too, the inability to fire people for reasons other than "this perso…

>>If they really complained about not getting compensated for buying their own food during lockdown I think "entitled" is a fair descriptor. I very much disagree. If you were getting food at work previously, as in - it was clearly your agreed part of compensation - then I would absolutely complain if suddenly I had to buy my own. >> But the flipside of that is that, when there's a deadline, I'm very invested in meeti…

> But the second your manager walks in and says "john, I expect you to work this weekend" I'd start looking for a different job.

Of course. A condition of my personal investment in meeting deadlines is exactly my not being treated like this.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#220
post #162

I think his derision of entitled ladder-climbing employees is valid from the perspective of someone who sees "building something valuable" as the point of employment. There is a whole community however that sees wealth acquisition as the point of employment. Even if it's "merely" joining the ranks of the top 5% this is lauded as success by many. Lawyers, doctors, consultants, stock traders, all the high paying profes…

Same. I can live in a hut in Guatemala if I feel challenged and am enjoying my work. Wealth is fun but so long as my family and I are good, it’s not a motivating factor. Solving problems is.

"so long as my family and I are good" - wealth goes a long way to ensure exactly that.
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