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Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

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211–220 of 839 posts

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oh, cabal fact checkers seem to say this link is garbage (do they though?). i will flog myself and pledge allegiance to the cabal to repent.

Even a cursory review of the Ramsland report you linked to indicates it was largely fiction. From the politifact review: Ramsland lists "Fenton" without specifying Fenton City or Fenton Township. But the turnout Ramsland lists for Fenton does not match the turnout in either jurisdiction. The actual turnout statistics reveal the inaccuracy of Ramsland’s numbers. His figure for North Muskegon is off by a factor of 10:…

"Likewise, all server security logs prior to 11:03 pm on November 4, 2020 are missing. This means that all security logs for the day after the election, on election day, and prior to election day are gone. Security logs are very important to an audit trail, forensics, and for detecting advanced persistent threats and outside attacks, especially on systems with outdated system files. These logs would contain domain controls, authentication failures, error codes, times users logged on and off, network connections to file servers between file accesses, internet connections, times, and data transfers. Other server logs before November 4, 2020 are present; therefore, there is no reasonable explanation for the security logs to be missing. "

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#212

I worked on campaigns for 10 years, I was an elected Hillary Rodham Clinton DNC Delegate and I witnessed real problems that should be of concern of every American. Votes should be cast in person, with identification and counted by hand. If Democracy is sacred we can wait a few days for results we can all trust. The system is clearly breaking down today where 75% of Republicans do not trust the election results and 75…

> 75% of Republicans do not trust the election results and

If their mistrust is based on crazy, there's nothing that can be done to fix it except to cure that crazy.

And I think it's based on crazy: the reasoning seems to break down to: (A) belief that Donald Trump won implying (B) the election must be fraudulent (since it didn't confirm A).

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#213
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a bit worrying that total lies about a conspiracy between Dominion and (very much dead) Hugo Chavez to rig an election for Joe Biden is what gets classified as “dissent” these days. I’d normally use a different, eight letter word to describe that. Defamatory statements draw lawsuits. Nothing terribly new or worrying about that.

>> Dissent is only to be tolerated when it's politically convenient. Come on, man. > It’s a bit worrying that total lies about a conspiracy between Dominion and (very much dead) Hugo Chavez to rig an election for Joe Biden is what gets classified as “dissent” these days. I'm not sure if you can really even call this a "classification." It's more of a false equivalency, either made in bad faith or through some sloppy…

> I'm not sure if you can really even call this a "classification."

Probably not, I'm mostly responding snarkily to how deeply conspiracy theories have embedded themselves into the body politic.

More important is the idea that a well formed[0] defamation lawsuit is something that requires public attention and redress. Attempting to call this defamation lawsuit something that is suppressing dissent smacks of a hamfisted attempt to make this lawsuit into something bigger than it actually is. Giuliani and his ideological cohort made a bunch of defamatory statements about a company, and predictably that company is suing for defamation. There's nothing terribly surprising or concerning about that.

0 - Defamation lawsuits can be used to suppress speech, of course. This is exactly why many states now have anti-SLAPP laws on the books. That however does not seem to be an issue in this case, as this lawsuit is at least well formed.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#214
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what world would manual counting have less paper trail? What is for sure - with voting machines, there is less validation. Hand counting means - all ballots are counted always (by volunteers with all parties invited) - whereas voting machines means a spot-test (in some states), and only a full manual count is when a recount is demanded. All this to say - I think Dominion did a thorough job - but this all only happ…

Voting by hand takes days, which is why it is only done automatically for close elections. However, a losing candidate may request a recount after the election. In most states, if the margin is outside of a stated threshold, that candidate must pay for the recount. If there is a discrepancy between the two counts, then a hand recount is performed. If an election isn't close, then the respective Secretary of State wil…

Voting by hand takes days - in the US. Not in Finland, France or the many other countries where voting is done by hand 100% successfully for decades with timely results.

Here's the conundrum - what constitutes what's "out of threshold"? If a voting machine, either by design or flaw, pushes a close vote outside the threshold - then that's a way to bypass the checks & balances and can be exploited by the unethical.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#215
post #206
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't always this vicious , or this pervasive in its viciousness, in my lifetime.

>> The problem I think is that you are starting from the assumption that America had a uniting mythos that only recently fell apart, rather than America having had deep, vicious internal divides throughout its entire history that were sometimes temporary subordinated to even stronger shared opposition to external forces. > It wasn't always this vicious, or this pervasive in its viciousness, in my lifetime. In our & o…

> we had the "even stronger shared opposition to external forces" of Cold War opposition to the Soviet Union to keep these divisions in check.

And even then, the Civil Rights and Anti-War and other internal conflicts of the 1950s-1970s weren't insignificant.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These aren't accusations of voter (or election) fraud in the same sense as was being claimed for 2020. From your second link: > During the tour's stop Friday in Seattle, Clinton pointed to FBI Director Christopher Wray's warning last month that Russia continues to pose a "very significant counterintelligence threat" and that efforts to influence U.S. elections with "social media, fake news" and "propaganda" has "cont…

Yes she claims the election was stolen. Her words. The Capital Hill attack was partially a result of unchecked claims from Dems and left-leaning media claiming Trump was an illegitimate President. Somehow people here think that's ok while Rudy/Trump's claims are not. Smh.

the double standard is real

also the downvotes for not toeing the blue team line are strong

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#217
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I think you've gathered, I'm coming from the "the trust is already gone" side.

I wasn't inclined to reflexively trust gov, even before this debacle. That's neither here nor there. I try to keep my bias out of it. Otherwise, someone from the opposing spectrum will take it as an invite for a useless argument. What steps can practically be taken to restore trust for the average person, who might not be as cynical as myself?

Nothing at this point.

Nixon killed any real trust in the 70s generation that raised the 90s kids, and Bush v. Gore, the war in Iraq, and Obama era drone strikes on US citizens without trial have killed any real trust in the 90s kids who raised the current generation. The current adult generation is having that killed by what is going on right now.

There's been three generations of general distrust (if not outright cynical belief that the government is _always_ lying), and that's not going to come back any time soon. I'm not sure there is anything that you can do beyond radical transparency and time.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not relevant to this topic, TD bank is one of the worst banking institution I have dealt with. Reading about them gives me nightmares.

I use TD and have never had a bad experience. Who do you bank with now? What made you switch?

boa and chase. neither is great. perhaps I need to look at web only banks

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[Dominion will probable be] treated as a public figure." Why? I'd never heard of them before November 2020, and I imagine that is true for most people. I'd also be curious to learn more about what counts as "reckless disregard for the truth", if you're willing to share.

https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/proving-fault-actual-malice... Dominion seems to be very clearly a “Limited Purpose Public Figure” in the domain in which the disputed statements apply. Their lack of general celebrity is a good argument that they aren’t an “all purpose” public figure.

Great link, thank you! That's precisely what I was looking for (and I highly recommend it to anyone else reading this thread). It does seem strange to me that we set the bar so high for defamation, but its one of those times where the trade-off is very clear, and it seems like in this particular case "reckless disregard for the truth" seems to fit extremely well.
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