Earlier quoted context omitted.
I actually liked Hipchat. It did what it was supposed to do - provide instant chat with colleagues - without the overhead and frills of Slack. It was simple and reliable. I'm not sure why it was so disliked.
> It was simple and reliable.
Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever
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Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
> its a fairly powerful tool for PM's That's the fundamental problem. Jira is sold to PMs and managers, not to developers, and it shows. Jira isn't an issue tracking tool, it's a work-tracking and developer-tracking tool masquerading as an issue tracker. The people who spend the most time with it aren't the customer.
Interesting how perspectives differ. Having used Jira for many years, I think it's straightforward for engineering work, but particularly hard for PMs and managers. Why? On the engineering side, it's pretty straightforward to integrate into a lifecycle. But for PMs and management it's a nightmare because they still haven't gotten their birds-eye-view roadmapping / bulk editing act together. The usual issue I have wit…
Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
> don't depend on the office for their socialization Could you explain what you mean by this argument?
By and large, Europe does not have Silicon Valley's culture of crazy overtime, living at the office, and spending your remaining free time with your colleagues.
Companies that hire young driven workers and have a good environment can get a similar amount of overtime and the work all the time attitude.
Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am directly responsible for Jira and Confluence admin/infrastructure on an enterprise level and once you know how at least Jira works, its a fairly powerful tool for PM's. I haven't run into many issues except during a migration where we knew we were going to run into issues. Atlassian's documentation isn't that good however.
> its a fairly powerful tool for PM's That's the fundamental problem. Jira is sold to PMs and managers, not to developers, and it shows. Jira isn't an issue tracking tool, it's a work-tracking and developer-tracking tool masquerading as an issue tracker. The people who spend the most time with it aren't the customer.
Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
By and large, Europe does not have Silicon Valley's culture of crazy overtime, living at the office, and spending your remaining free time with your colleagues.
European companies don't have equally nice office, free snacks or pay as top American companies. Companies that hire young driven workers and have a good environment can get a similar amount of overtime and the work all the time attitude.
Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not entirely sure why you'd comment this in the first place? If you're a developer you simply need to login and look at your project, not really know much else except how to click issue buttons. I'm talking from an administrator standpoint. Developers also aren't the center of the universe no matter how much we think we are.
Most of the tickets in our JIRA are made for the developers, not for the PMs or the customer support. Also, looking at my project is a pain since my tickets are outside the sprint and I either need to go into the backlog and scroll a bunch, or use a custom search.
Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever
#217One thing that is not often mentioned is these threads is how this is particularly beneficial for European workers. They live in cities that are already small and dense, generally don't depend on the office for their socialization, internet speeds are good (due to density probably) and family life is balanced. Plus a lot of them are already accustomed to working remotely. They 'll probably be able to compete for a lo…
Why compete with FAANG trying to pay new grads $300k when you can pay an experienced developer from Europe $100k? I honestly never understood it.
Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't new talent more expensive than existing talent? If you've had employees that for years have been getting inadequate COL adjustments, they're cheaper to keep than getting market-rate talent.
This assumes that the market rate is constantly increasing. Given the amount of job losses that have occurred recently, there may be talent available at a cheaper price.
If a company has had somebody stagnant for years (many years), they're not going to be replaced for cheaper. The crash might cancel the last couple years of inflation at most.
Also, the employee is much more experienced now (could go from junior to senior over 5 years). Will the replacement be equally experienced or starting from scratch again? A fresh experienced hire is certainly more expensive than what the employee was originally earning.
Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever
#219If this trend continues, it should affect bay area housing prices. I dont see any reason to pay such high rent, if I could work anywhere in the pacific north west.
My Bay Area job is letting me WFH permanently, and I'm looking to move to an adjacent area but the rental market is empty, and housing sales seem... targeted to SF expats.
Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever
#220Unfortunately, game theory says that remote work will not stay once people can go back to work from the office safely. The reality is that there is a real advantage in working in person. Whether it’s increased trust, communication, or lower friction. We could see it pre-COVID in a he fact that there are barely any successful remote offices (let alone individuals). This means that employees would see advantages to com…