Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk • Hacker News Board

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#211

Post by alistairSH » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:30 PM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #131

ceejayoz wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Children aren't typically the family index case during lockdown" doesn't really tell us much about non-lockdown spread.

But all the evidence from European countries tells us a lot about non-lockdown spread following a proper lockdown.

...proper lockdown...

Which the US refuses to do.

It's like we're the kid in school who refused to do their work, then has a tempter-tantrum because they have to forgo recess. And much of the EU (and Taiwan, Singapore, HK, etc) are the nerdy kid who finished early and now get to spend the afternoon doing something fun.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#212

Post by _fq4v » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:30 PM UTC

Applejinx wrote: post #72

_ea1k wrote: post #6

I feel like there is too much emphasis on these and not enough on the ones that earnestly want to go back to work. There should be a balance here, as we really do need a lot of students to have access to schools in the fall. Remote learning doesn't work for everyone and leaves a lot of people behind. The overall consequences of another lost semester may be far worse than the consequences of reopening.

Here's a question to consider: behind on the way to what, exactly? If we keep on getting pandemics (something that's been expected for a long time) the whole baseline of how society operates will be forcibly disrupted. (a baseline people can be 'left behind' on the way to: I hear talk of students missing vital academic AND SOCIAL connections, which sounds like pre-pandemic talk) If we have even moderate economic coll…

We've always 'kept on getting pandemics'. Pandemics and rampant disease and death is the normal historical state of the world. We have become accustomed to it being not the case due to the prevalence of vaccines and better medicines, but COVID is nowhere near the worst pandemic ever, nor is it even the last in living memory. Recall that the worst pandemic in terms of per-capita death is still within living memory. Pandemics are normal. There is nothing that has accelerated their emergence. This is a fantastic lie.

> 'Normal' is never coming back.

That's ridiculous. If anything, this pandemic has restored 'normal' to the world. The normal state of the world is pandemics, natural disaster, human death, etc. Only by active human society have we been able to avoid that. Modern society is so good and efficient that too many people have forgotten what's normal.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#213

Post by m0zg » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:30 PM UTC

cool_dude85 wrote: post #172

eaandkw wrote: post #150

I have pretty much given up on everybody at this point. I have already pulled my kid from school and will not send them back. I am in a single income family and I am now working from home. All actions and purchases at this point are to help us to become more independant from the system. Society and government at large has shown itself to be unreliable and undependable. I am also making longer term plans to move out o…

Not sure where you're from, but in many places, "society and government" has not failed people the same way it has in the US. Even within the US there are some places where local and state government have performed much better than places like Florida or NYC. That is to say, the problem is not, conceptually, "society and government", but instead, the American society and American government we have today. Don't give…

> has not failed people the same way it has in the US

Not yet. It ain't over yet though, even though it might seem like it elsewhere. Basic facts are: herd immunity is prohibitively expensive from the fatalities perspective (although it may be our only long term option), a vaccine is not guaranteed to ever exist, and C19 is now endemic, so it will come back. Oh and also, for the society to function people must be able to work.

To poster below who said that no vaccine == no herd immunity. That's actually not true. For a vaccine to be approved it needs to be safe. Herd immunity will just happen eventually, no approval needed as the virus itself doesn't care if it's "safe" or not. Paradoxically, the society will likely prefer to tolerate higher body count due to not having a vaccine at all, rather than smaller body count for a vaccine that is unsafe in a small, but not completely negligible percentage of cases.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#214

Post by nopinsight » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:30 PM UTC

Oxx wrote: post #189

eaandkw wrote: post #150

I have pretty much given up on everybody at this point. I have already pulled my kid from school and will not send them back. I am in a single income family and I am now working from home. All actions and purchases at this point are to help us to become more independant from the system. Society and government at large has shown itself to be unreliable and undependable. I am also making longer term plans to move out o…

Good. The current state of the world is incredibly unnatural when you compare it to even 50 years ago. Everything is too connected. We are so much more efficient, but so much more fragile. The best thing you can do to save the world is save yourself and your family. Less fragility, more robustness at the personal / local level. I am mid twenties, and was homeschooled my entire childhood. My father owned a technology…

How do parents help their kids learn once they reach middle school or high school level and the materials get more challenging?

I understand that many good online courses exist but they are not full substitutes of in-person discussions and personalized feedback for essays, for example. It can take quite a bit of time to understand or even review materials. Some families might not have the necessary background as well.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#215

Post by ars » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:31 PM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #97

war1025 wrote: post #56

I believe the old FDR phrase, "There's nothing to fear but fear itself," is becoming more and more accurate with our situation. The risk from this virus goes down dramatically the younger you are. Kids are young. That's obvious. Their parents also tend to be young, at least young enough to not be in the high risk groups. These groups are also accustomed to being sick or dealing with sick people. If there were no vacc…

Or you know, you could deal with the virus like 99% of the other first world countries and be half way through it instead of still not having hit the peak of the epidemic. It's crystal clear that the US is doing something wrong. "it's not that bad", "europe is reopening schools so we should do it too", &c. What kind of mental gymnastic do you have to go through to even write these things... https://i.imgur.com/2Pkl2P…

That graph is actually misleading. Instead take a look at each state individually: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases-50-states

You will see that no single state except LA looks like that, they all look like the Germany graph.

The graph is simply the result of adding several time-shifted graphs together. Basally some US states had a delay before getting hit hard by the virus.

Everyone is like Europe good US bad hurr hurr hurr. But actually the US is simply lagging behind Europe. States they were hit early and done, states that were not are starting their ramp up now.

If you look closely you can actually see the virus spreading from East to West (and South) - notice the Eastern states had their cases and done, and now the Western and Southern states are starting.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#216

Post by craydandy » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:32 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #152

Sweden's strategy is looking more sensible every day (with the exception of failing to isolate nursing homes, which was a blunder). Their excess mortality rate is back to zero, and they never closed schools for a day.

Completely agreed! Excess deaths are reaching all time lows in many European countries. Most of the excess deaths - as in Italy - were probably due to antibiotic resistance.

But this is something you can't say, not at least in HN. You have to agree and obey the official truth.

It is mind boggling how otherwise sensible people panicked and refuse the see the truth. I really hope vaccine would come soon, just to calm people down.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#217

Post by LanceH » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:33 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #171

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The federal government is worse than useless It's the government that the collective beliefs and cultural assumptions of this country have built. Maybe there's a cause-effect link in there, somewhere, you would think?

No, the federal government we have is the result of our outdated, quirky and flawed electoral system, where the votes of certain states are much more valuable than others.

Trump did not lose the popular vote. There is no contest for the popular vote. Perhaps one party should try moving a bit to campaign according to the actual contest at hand, rather than try to rewrite the rules.

You assume the Democrats would win a popular vote easily. First, Republicans would actually campaign in California for a change. They might even move left a tad on some issues. Democrats might decide it's the time to go batshit insane and go further left, leaving an even wider, disenfranchised center than we have now.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#218

Post by partyboat1586 » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:33 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #209

eaandkw wrote: post #150

I have pretty much given up on everybody at this point. I have already pulled my kid from school and will not send them back. I am in a single income family and I am now working from home. All actions and purchases at this point are to help us to become more independant from the system. Society and government at large has shown itself to be unreliable and undependable. I am also making longer term plans to move out o…

I think one of the things that has been so disheartening to me about the pandemic is that it has shown how we just can't really do anything anymore in the US. I mean, just look at PPE. I understand being a little flat footed when the pandemic first started, but it's been nearly 6 months now. I would have expected mass mobilization to pump out N95 masks, gloves, gowns, face shields, etc. by the millions. I mean, look…

Which countries are you thinking of?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#219

Post by DenisM » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:33 PM UTC

The Los Angelos teachers added a few other requests [1]. The introduction starts with:

[...] LAUSD educators clearly want to get back into schools with their students, but the underlying question at every step must be: Given broader societal conditions, how do we open physical schools in a way that ensures that the benefit outweigh the risks [...]

And then proceeds to the following recommendations, among many others:

- Defund Police

- Shelter the homeless

- Paid sick leave for all

- Medicare for all

- "Charter Moratorium"

- "Financial Support for Undocumented Students and Families"

- Wealth tax

- Millionaire tax

- ...

[1] PDF https://www.utla.net/sites/default/files/samestormdiffboats_...

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#220

Post by nickff » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 7:34 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #209

eaandkw wrote: post #150

I have pretty much given up on everybody at this point. I have already pulled my kid from school and will not send them back. I am in a single income family and I am now working from home. All actions and purchases at this point are to help us to become more independant from the system. Society and government at large has shown itself to be unreliable and undependable. I am also making longer term plans to move out o…

I think one of the things that has been so disheartening to me about the pandemic is that it has shown how we just can't really do anything anymore in the US. I mean, just look at PPE. I understand being a little flat footed when the pandemic first started, but it's been nearly 6 months now. I would have expected mass mobilization to pump out N95 masks, gloves, gowns, face shields, etc. by the millions. I mean, look…

If you want an increase in mask supply, you have to either allow the pricing mechanism to do its job, or force people to make masks. Given the (very popular) laws against price gauging, it seems like the only viable option is to force some companies to manufacture more masks. Production capacity is available, but at a higher cost than is currently economical.

All that being said, your second point seems correct to me, and I doubt anything will be done (as a result of the political quagmire).