How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#211

Post by crispyambulance » Sun, May 31, 2020, 10:46 PM UTC

NoahTheDuke wrote: post #207

crispyambulance wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were either going to or coming from a riot area. Their responsibility is to make sure the riot doesn't spread and stop the riot. They can't do that effectively if they have to wade through a massive crowd of onlookers appearing wherever they go. Bad actors easily mix in to situations like this and make the situation extremely dangerous for everyone. If someone doesn't respond to direct commands in such an emerge…

If it was reasonable, it would encoded into the law. It is not for the police to create new laws on the spot, and even if it were, the use of force to enforce it is not reasonable.

Proportionate force is justifiable in an emergency, and we'll see if it is really "against the law" for police to demand that people get inside temporarily.

My guess? Absolutely NOTHING will happen to those police that paintballed the porch gawkers after very clearly telling them to go inside.

Having seen what happened in Baltimore in 2015 and now Philly, I am terrified of the idea of a city going up in flames when a riot gets out of control. It's been too close the times that I've seen it personally. Historically, it has been far worse.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#212

Post by xphilter » Sun, May 31, 2020, 11:21 PM UTC

sophacles wrote: post #180

xphilter wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree; but it is possible to have a lawful order to control someone on private property. An example was the Boston bombing manhunt where police were doing door to door searches because there was a specific, articulated threat in a defined geographic area (note, I don’t know that’s the real legal test, but I’m sure it considers factors like that).

So your argument is that "different situations are different situations?" That is a solid justification for any action in this situation!

No, I was arguing against the parent comment. In this situation there were no exigent circumstances and so no expansion of what the law enforcement can do. I wanted to clarify that in special circumstances it is possible for a LE to order someone to move inside their house. You need consequences for this bad action so that the police have credibility to use the action in the proper situation.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#213

Post by xphilter » Sun, May 31, 2020, 11:24 PM UTC

bsanr2 wrote: post #199

xphilter wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree; but it is possible to have a lawful order to control someone on private property. An example was the Boston bombing manhunt where police were doing door to door searches because there was a specific, articulated threat in a defined geographic area (note, I don’t know that’s the real legal test, but I’m sure it considers factors like that).

What you're calling for is the suspension of the rule of law. No crisis justifies this unless you're willing to throw the whole thing out permanently. If you have a problem with a lack of police powers to compel house arrest without cause or to search without permission or warrant, write a new Constitutional amendment and get it passed.

That is a possibility, and one I think you need in a complex society. If police have a real threat of harm coming from inside a private home, they might need to enter the home before they can get a valid warrant. The problem is, police—-by doing the things in this video and though mistreatment of minorities—-are losing credibility (if they had any). Society needs to hold bad actors in police accountable so that we can be protected when they’re actually needed.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#214

Post by dntbnmpls » Sun, May 31, 2020, 11:52 PM UTC

tmsh wrote: post #2

Can I just say - the sources for good, actionable news are sometimes the strangest of places these days. I've started just reading: http://reddit.com/r/news instead of newspaper websites and it's nice - some affiliate tv news stations (the Minneapolis newspapers...not so much) or student newspapers (I see you Crimson reporting on the anthropology department) are getting it done and sometimes more consistently than ma…

> Crowd-sourced news is coming of age.

That's what people thought around 2010, then we got censorship and control.

If you like r/news now, then you would have loved it 10 years ago when it was more "crowd-sourced" with less censorship. r/news is now no different from other major subs, mod propaganda.

Also, append "old" to reddit.com for a better user experience - http://old.reddit.com/r/news

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#215

Post by eyelidlessness » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 3:28 AM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #127

eyelidlessness wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having internal prejudice which you wish to understand and eliminate, versus actively and purposely organizing or facilitating violence against people of color, are drastically different things. The long history I'm referencing is not people who have hidden prejudices and need to face their demons, it's people who are malicious toward groups of people for their race on purpose.

These are just different extremes in the expression of racism, which is the unjust treatment of other human beings due to race. Those who are vehemently racist are likely only a minority of the expressions of racial injustice which minorities face as a lifestyle in America. The answer to both should point to structural solutions rather than making this an individual moral matter, asking people to monitor whether they…

> These are just different extremes in the expression of racism

No, they're not! One is quite obviously extreme, the other is quite obviously not. Some things are, and some things are not. Something that isn't can't be. I apologize for paraphrasing a disgusting piece of crap guy in this context, but... please understand that your nothing-matters philosophy is helping people get killed/the people killing them go without accountability.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#216

Post by cycomanic » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 3:49 AM UTC

joejerryronnie wrote: post #151

tmsh wrote: post #2

Can I just say - the sources for good, actionable news are sometimes the strangest of places these days. I've started just reading: http://reddit.com/r/news instead of newspaper websites and it's nice - some affiliate tv news stations (the Minneapolis newspapers...not so much) or student newspapers (I see you Crimson reporting on the anthropology department) are getting it done and sometimes more consistently than ma…

It is becoming harder and harder to find non-partisan sources of news these days. Even CNN (who I always considered impartial) pretty blatantly wears their politics on their sleeves now. I’ve resorted to reading multiple center-left & center-right sources and trying to reconcile the truth somewhere in the middle.

This is a discussion that comes up again and again. How do you go from the news is partisan to the truth must lie somewhere in the middle.

Truth does not care about political leanings. Moreover this assumption has caused a pretty extreme drift to the right in the US, all driven by the republican party & fox news moving more and more to the extreme right, but moderates still thinking the truth must be in the middle.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#217

Post by mvid » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 4:55 AM UTC

Minor49er wrote: post #208

justinclift wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically: Can I be outside my house (on my property) after 8 p.m. and before 6 a.m.? Yes.

Did all of the five young adults on the porch live there? You don't know. And neither did the cops. The cops took the safest route and ordered them inside. The group responded by not complying.

Noncompliance of a minor or fabricated rule results in extreme physical violence by police. Where have I heard that before?

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#218

Post by mvid » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 4:58 AM UTC

crispyambulance wrote: post #211

NoahTheDuke wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was reasonable, it would encoded into the law. It is not for the police to create new laws on the spot, and even if it were, the use of force to enforce it is not reasonable.

Proportionate force is justifiable in an emergency, and we'll see if it is really "against the law" for police to demand that people get inside temporarily. My guess? Absolutely NOTHING will happen to those police that paintballed the porch gawkers after very clearly telling them to go inside. Having seen what happened in Baltimore in 2015 and now Philly, I am terrified of the idea of a city going up in flames when a…

You are absolutely right that none of them will get in trouble. That’s kind of the point of all of this.

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#219

Post by mvid » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 5:00 AM UTC

yummypaint wrote: post #210

gruez wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your threat model includes police stingrays, the could also jam all cellphone traffic which makes cloud backups irrelevant.

This wouldnt be possible in the US, the police don't have the authority to override federal legislation. The FCC has historically been extremely agressive and successful in prosecuting use of jamming devices. I think it's more likely that stingrays would be used to inventory who is at a protest etc and put people on a list for individual targeting.

Jamming devices have already been in use in Minneapolis

Re: How to Safely and Ethically Film Police Misconduct

#220

Post by joejerryronnie » Mon, Jun 01, 2020, 5:01 AM UTC

cycomanic wrote: post #216

joejerryronnie wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is becoming harder and harder to find non-partisan sources of news these days. Even CNN (who I always considered impartial) pretty blatantly wears their politics on their sleeves now. I’ve resorted to reading multiple center-left & center-right sources and trying to reconcile the truth somewhere in the middle.

This is a discussion that comes up again and again. How do you go from the news is partisan to the truth must lie somewhere in the middle. Truth does not care about political leanings. Moreover this assumption has caused a pretty extreme drift to the right in the US, all driven by the republican party & fox news moving more and more to the extreme right, but moderates still thinking the truth must be in the middle.

I make a case by case determination based on what info is out there, what I am able to observe, and the sum total of my life experiences. What I believe is true about an individual topic does not always fall directly in the center. But I guarantee you the left spins their stories just as much as the right does.