Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#211

Post by pjmlp » Mon, May 18, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

aianus wrote: post #188

pjmlp wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything else is lost in US with immediate job termination, no thanks. You can get those 30 pretty much everywhere, either by negotiating it, or taking advantage of the multiple holidays that we enjoy across Europe. And as I mentioned, I don't have any complains regarding salary. There is more in life than being rich.

> There is more in life than being rich. Yes, of course. > Everything else is lost in US with immediate job termination, no thanks. This doesn't matter when you save $60k/year from your $250k FAANG job. Job termination just means a long, fun vacation before you look for your next thing.

FAANG is a drop into the ocean for a selected few.

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#212

Post by pjmlp » Mon, May 18, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

gruturo wrote: post #191

pjmlp wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never felt I was earning worse than on US, while enjoying my 30 days vacations, home office, unemployment support, health insurance and having a privileged life above many of my friends in "regular" (non-IT related) jobs.

In the US, so many jobs, in so many industries, pay a complete pittance. It's one of the least regulated economies and people are seen as a fungible asset, hired, laid off at a company's convenience (in many states), and paid literally as little as possible. And yet, in this bizarro (for Europeans) world, devs are often paid a small fortune. That's not generosity. That's because they are recognized as bringing huge v…

I guess those American game developers enjoy selling their games written with help of Unity and CryEngine.

While many Americans also enjoy having their messages carried forward with help of Erlang.

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#213

Post by pjmlp » Mon, May 18, 2020, 5:05 PM UTC

shankr wrote: post #201

aianus wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is more in life than being rich. Yes, of course. > Everything else is lost in US with immediate job termination, no thanks. This doesn't matter when you save $60k/year from your $250k FAANG job. Job termination just means a long, fun vacation before you look for your next thing.

Also the idea of people get fired in IT jobs in USA at the drop of the hat is also bit of an exaggeration. Just look at how Airbnb and Uber are handling it.

The 3000 lucky ones announced today.

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#214

Post by jeltz » Mon, May 18, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

toohotatopic wrote: post #206

bromuro wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opening a startup in Germany, Italy or Spain means enter a world full of bureaucracy and complicated rules: you need enough money to start and an accountant hopefully knowing their stuff. Taxes are so high that you will likely struggle (or just close) the first two years and you will eventually start accumulating tax debts. Errors On the other side, some european countries came to rescue with some smart solutions — l…

>you need enough money to start That's true everywhere, isn't it? >Taxes are so high that you will likely struggle (or just close) the first two years You pay taxes on profits. Especially during the first years you should have so many expenses that taxes shouldn't be a problem.

Not in Sweden. To start a limited liability company here you only need 2500 euro and no accountant and Swden does have plenty of successful tech companies, it is that the US tech giants tend to buy them out.

I own two tiny companies, neither of them which has an accountant.

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#215

Post by shankr » Mon, May 18, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #213

shankr wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the idea of people get fired in IT jobs in USA at the drop of the hat is also bit of an exaggeration. Just look at how Airbnb and Uber are handling it.

The 3000 lucky ones announced today.

Most probably bigger severance package than your yearly salary.

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#216

Post by neuronic » Mon, May 18, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

qznc wrote: post #28

In german companies, I see an increasing use of Threema as the "official" messenger. Is that only a german trend?

One cluster of my friend base has entirely switched to Telegram.

Now I know I will get hit with a barrage of information why Telegram is also bad and blah but honestly at least it's a bit less info for the POS company Facebook.

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#217

Post by fluffything » Mon, May 18, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

toohotatopic wrote: post #209

fluffything wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany you need 20k Euros cash, and an accountant, and to pay all the "bureaucracy costs" of registering a new company. That's something you have to pay independently of whether your startup is making money or not.

That's for a GmbH [1] where you create an independent legal entity. Actually it's 25k and almost 1k in legal fees. Though, you only need an accountant if you have millions in assets or plenty of employees. [3] However, that's for an independent legal entity. If you want to start a business, you can simply register a business, even online [2] for about 25 to 100 euros. If you don't have wealth to protect you don't nee…

> However, that's for an independent legal entity. If you want to start a business, you can simply register a business, even online [2] for about 25 to 100 euros. If you don't have wealth to protect you don't need a legal entity anyway.

I'm not sure I follow. If your startup isn't even an independent legal entity, AFAICT you can't pay your employees with equity (e.g. stock options).

If you could, the risk would be super high. If the startup is an independent entity and the CEO screws up (e.g. goes to jail), you can replace it. But if it is a completely private business owned by one single person and that person doesn't want to be replaced, then whatever equity you had is now worthless.

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#218

Post by mosselman » Mon, May 18, 2020, 5:46 PM UTC

rpastuszak wrote: post #167

mosselman wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time an article about Whatsapp on HN or Reddit pops up I fearfully look to see if there are legitimate privacy concerns. There are legitimate privacy concerns. The main concern here is that Facebook builds up a network of who you are in contact with, how often you message them, when you message them, etc. You are either not aware of this or you don't mind, but calling it illegitimate is not a fair assessment…

+1 althought I'd replace "why is this thing free" with "what am I paying with"

Good point, because there IS a price.

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#219

Post by jacquesm » Mon, May 18, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

ClikeX wrote: post #100

jacquesm wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone already has it.

In the Netherlands it was the platform that was easy to install and didn't cost money per message. SMS was pretty expensive back then. Whatsapp quickly became the defacto messaging app. The word "whatsapping" even replaced "sms'ing". At this point in time you need Whatsapp (Or Messenger when you don't have their number yet) The only time I get an SMS now is for specific multi-factor authentications or automated updat…

The fact that an SMS costs money is a feature. That way people will think twice before they SMS you. Free communications is only great if you have infinite time to communicate, as the cost of a bit approaches zero the quantity of bits goes up considerably. Things that before would have been fine to save up until you meet again now need to be sent instantly, and need to receive an instant response as well otherwise there will be a bunch of 'did you get my message' messages to follow up on the first one.

I prefer a slight barrier before I'm interrupted and don't mind paying the cost of sending a message. On top of that I don't like non-regulated foreign companies looking over my shoulder. That this is a non-standard pattern I'm well aware of but it suits me just fine.

Re: Germany's data chief tells ministries WhatsApp is a no-go

#220

Post by tossAfterUsing » Mon, May 18, 2020, 6:07 PM UTC

vinay427 wrote: post #132

dijit wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I had more than one upvote, this capitulates perfectly my feelings on the situation. I see the same sentiment echoed in our American friends w.r.t. Chinese spying. Huawei is dangerous and must be stopped, but the NSA having broken encryption a bunch of times, sending NSL's to chip makers and such is fine. And that is not seen as hypocritical. We as Europeans have no technological industry without the USA, and…

Plenty of European countries are complicit in similar acts of their own, and many more tacitly assist. I don't think many deserve being painted as a victim of this situation. There's an article right now on the FP about the Netherlands helping GCHQ break Argentinean encryption. In any case, I think the hypocrisy makes sense if you consider that the people saying this are from places (the US + close allies) that proba…

> I don't think many deserve being painted as a victim of this situation.

Especially the least educated individual users are largely victims of this situation. Any who could possibly educate themselves further are proportionally less victimized and more complicit/approving.

Open standards are the answer, and the more individual demand we can create for these products and services, the better served we will find ourselves.