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In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

nytimes.com

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Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#211

Post by rdtwo »

awakeasleep wrote: post #99
grawprog wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have safe injection sites up here in Vancouver, you still find used needles lying around everywhere, depending where you go, only you also find the small saline packs and disposable spoons from the injection sites lying around with the used needles. The police don't really seem to care. I've watched a couple of officers find a small pile of used needles at one of the skytrain stations, they laughed to each other s…

Nothing concrete, but often calls to complain make it into a tally or database that can be cited by a politician looking to change things.

Seattle PD knows this so they take days to file basic reports. If you wanted to report the somebody broke into your car you could be waiting multiple days for someone to take the report.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#212

Post by notus »

sukilot wrote: post #136
notus wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't want to be drug addicts and live a poor existence to feed a habit. They have problems, they use the drugs to medicate or fit in, the problems compound with drug use, so they use more to deal with the problems more. They are also ostracized by communities which nobody likes as we are social creatures. The level of that social exclusion probably depends a lot on their current level of wealth. People like h…

> People don't want to be drug addicts and live a poor existence to feed a habit. Non-addicts don't. Addicts do . Addictive people are stuck in the middle oscillating. Free will + mind-altering drugs is a fundamentally hard problem.

I definitely disagree. The oscillation is not out of actually wanting to be addicts, it is because they lack the coping skills to deal with trying to get clean and dealing with the world on someone's terms other than their own. There is a big difference between wanting to be something and feeling like you have no other alternatives other than to become that something.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#213

Post by ndarwincorn »

throwawaysea wrote: post #156
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn’t this bad in the 90s or 80s, when crime was higher everywhere else. Relatively speaking, Seattle is worse off than it was before, which is a bit sad for the non transplants.

Exactly this. Transplants are part of the problem though - they’ve brought their political culture/voting habits/policies with them, and are ruining a formerly effectively managed city without asking why it was attractive to move here in the first place.

Please go ask the lifers at the May Day riots how they feel about the effective management of the city before all these darn transplants showed up.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#214

Post by m0zg »

empath75 wrote: post #39
nostromo wrote: post #15

... this is probably news to people actually living in Seattle. (Edit: the title was originally, "Seattle Has Figured Out How to End the War on Drugs") A place where meth heads attack people with pitchforks in the street a few days after being released from prison on a suspended sentence. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-accused-... Not to mention our random piles of used syringes, which are often…

When people say things like this, I do have to wonder if they've ever lived in a city before. Seattle's crime rate, like most American cities, has been steadily declining since the 1980s. There is just a certain amount of crime and drug use that will always exist in the big city. No amount of 'tough on crime' policing will make it go away.

>> has been steadily declining since the 1980s

And it'll "decline" further after this now that petty theft and shooting heroin in full view of the public is not a crime. Abolish all laws and it'll go down to zero, woo-hoo!

I fear that the secondary effect of this will be to attract even more homeless heroin addicts from places where these things are still crimes.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#215

Post by michaelmrose »

dymk wrote: post #7

I am just astounded that this is being spun in such a positive light. It absolutely has had a negative impact on public safety here. They're offered public services, and they refuse them, because many of our "tiny villages" have no-drug-use policies, which they will not abide by. My city has one of the worst problems with repeat violent drug addicts in the nation (perhaps aside from the Bay) and yet we refuse to jail…

Having had to deal with issues in Seattle myself and having had family members that were the victims of crime in Seattle I'm sympathetic however can't we do a better job of dealing with the violent and deal with addicts without throwing them into an oubliette?

Regarding the idiot trying to throw women over the overpass. Your statement is in error. It's a crime to try to harm people as well and he has in fact been arrested repeatedly.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/man-arrested-for-trying-to-...

The problem is they keep dismissing the charges because he is incompetent AND not locking him up for everyone's safety not that they haven't arrested him.

They are currently trying to figure out what to do with him this time now

19-1-02095-1 SEA STATE OF WASHINGTON VS WILSON, JONATHAN JAMES Criminal - Active

https://dja-prd-ecexap1.kingcounty.gov/?q=node/405/2696881/F...

Lets hope they decide to do something smarter this time.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#216

Post by rdtwo »

EpicEng wrote: post #85
allana wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please cite how Seattle's policy of not locking people up to rot in prison is extremist. You had a viable argument right up until that point! Edit: Thanks for the bot downvotes! Going from +2 to -1 in the span of a minute on two separate comments is a bit of a red flag :P

Not arressting people for theft is pretty extremist and I can't imagine how that is a good thing for the citizens of Seattle.

Clearly you need to check your privilege and share your stuff...

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#217

Post by fzeroracer »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #147
tjr225 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I mean, without statistics his anecdotes are meaningless. It's a common thing to complain here in Seattle, but having lived in the Midwest for most of my life I know what true violence looks like and feels like. I don't hear guns every night like I did in KC. There aren't 600 murders a year like in Chicago. I'm not saying Seattle is perfect but I've never felt safer. And I live in the Central District, which is…

It wasn’t this bad in the 90s or 80s, when crime was higher everywhere else. Relatively speaking, Seattle is worse off than it was before, which is a bit sad for the non transplants.

Do you have statistics to back up this claim?

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#218

Post by chrisdhoover »

redisman wrote: post #158
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver are remarkably similar in their problems and approaches to solutions. It really feels like a PNW/BC cultural thing.

And it's all following in the footsteps of SF. Lets make our cities open-air asylums!

The city’s approach is a shameful failure

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#219

Post by ndarwincorn »

sukilot wrote: post #160
allana wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have statistics to back their position, this attitude of not working from the data we have is such an issue that it has become local satire in Seattle: http://theneedling.com/2019/02/05/magnolia-named-worlds-most...

> is such an issue The needling is also not working from data...

The article is satirizing sentiment reflected in data gathered by Seattle U and reported on by the Seattle Times[1].

This was linked in that Needling article.

[1] https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/mean-world-sy...

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#220

Post by InitialLastName »

notadoc wrote: post #77
just_lurkin wrote: post #17

The reporters designation of "figured out" seems to stem more from the fact that the solution fits his own view than any actual real evidence. There is mention of the difficulties such lax policies has brought to the city, but they are waved away as being "growing pains" toward a new utopia. I can't say, living here, that I feel that the problem is solved. I view the needles outside my apartment as evidence to the co…

It's certainly not just Seattle either, the large-scale homeless/junky situation describes basically every west coast city. There's obviously a much deeper problem.

Amusingly, it's entirely possible that the deepest problem is cleanly illustrated by the other two replies to your comment (throwawaysea blaming liberalism and allana blaming wealth inequality) as we talk around one another's preconceived notions of how the world works until we drive off a cliff.
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