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Alarming surge in drug-resistant HIV uncovered

nature.com

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Re: Alarming surge in drug-resistant HIV uncovered

#211

Post by malandrew »

rowanG077 wrote: post #202
malandrew wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're basing your argument on cherrypicking one single pharmaceutical company that is doing exceptionally well recently because it had the second best selling drug of 2018, Harvoni, a drug to treat Hep C. What about when you take all the pharma companies and average how well they do over several years? The average net profit margin for the industry is 14.05% according to a January 2018 study by New York University’s…

14.05% Is FUCKING GREAT considering they make their money over the misery of people. It's actually a disgrace that the profit margin is anything over 2%.

14.05% is perfectly reasonable considering they are giving people hope for a better quality of life.

Profiting off someone's misery would be when you cause the problem and provide the solution. If you merely recognize an existing problem and provide a solution where there previously was none or where the previous solution was inadequate/inferior.

Attitudes like yours makes me not want to continue using my talent to create on solutions to problems that qualitatively and quantitatively improve people's lives. If people are going to look at it as profiting off misery and deny me the opportunity to increase my wealth, I and others will just take our talents elsewhere. There is no lack of other industries and problems where those capable of contributing solutions can make money and not be subject to your shitty attitude towards how they make a living.

Lastly, I say all this as someone who takes an orphan drug myself that would not exist at all if the US didn't have a legal framework that gives pharmaceutical companies the incentive to bring drugs to market. The drug I take is available in only one other country and only because a US pharmaceutical company brought it to market.

Re: Alarming surge in drug-resistant HIV uncovered

#212

Post by wtdata »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #206
sadris wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HIV has already mutated to bypass prep. There was a case in SF about 8 months ago in the local news. Wear condoms.

Condoms are less effective against HIV than PrEP.

That's a clear overstatement for which I can't find any evidence.

Contracting HIV with unprotected sex is difficult (1/1000 for vaginal sex and insertive anal sex, 1/71 for receiving anal sex - all numbers for unprotected sex) [1], breaking a condom is also difficult (4% cases in anal sex between gay men - which is the higher number [2]). Meaning that contracting HIV while wearing a condom, is extremely difficult (0.05% in the worst hypothesis).

It's up to you then, to prove that PrEP is more efficient than 99.95% of times (while still disregarding that unlike condoms, PrEP doesn't protect you in any way from other STDs... yes, those STDs that people not using condoms and that think they are entitled to have other tax/insurance payers providing PrEP for them, are spreading around).

[1] https://www.catie.ca/en/pif/summer-2012/putting-number-it-ri... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27227161

Re: Alarming surge in drug-resistant HIV uncovered

#213

Post by malandrew »

tonyarkles wrote: post #209
malandrew wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're basing your argument on cherrypicking one single pharmaceutical company that is doing exceptionally well recently because it had the second best selling drug of 2018, Harvoni, a drug to treat Hep C. What about when you take all the pharma companies and average how well they do over several years? The average net profit margin for the industry is 14.05% according to a January 2018 study by New York University’s…

> You're basing your argument on cherrypicking one single pharmaceutical company that is doing exceptionally well recently because it had the second best selling drug of 2018 Well, the discussion was about the atrocious cost of HIV medication, and Gilead is the company that holds the patent on Truvada. You didn't provide a link, but http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New_Home_Page/datafile/... suggests it's actuall…

28 with higher net margins and 65 with lower net margins.

As I said, not great, not terrible. They're doing just fine, but they are also far from abusing their position. An industry abusing its position would be one with higher net margins than almost all other industries. The fact that 30% of industries have better net margins suggests that this industry is far from being abusive in its pursuit of profit while improving people's quality of life.

Re: Alarming surge in drug-resistant HIV uncovered

#214

Post by paviva »

wtdata wrote: post #141
nerdjon wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not, in most not ass backwards places you can get free condoms. Maybe it should not cost $1300 a month for no good reason in the US.

The good reason is that PrEP has negative side effects, it's expensive, and you don't need it if you show some personal responsibility and use a condom. Nobody should be expected to be financing your personal preferences when it comes to the way you prefer to have sexual intercourse.

PrEP is very likely cost-saving, i.e. it costs less than the life-long treatment of new HIV infections it will have prevented.

Unless you're willing to argue that treatment for HIV infections should not be covered, your argument against PrEP is pretty weak here.

Re: Alarming surge in drug-resistant HIV uncovered

#215

Post by wtdata »

paviva wrote: post #214
wtdata wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good reason is that PrEP has negative side effects, it's expensive, and you don't need it if you show some personal responsibility and use a condom. Nobody should be expected to be financing your personal preferences when it comes to the way you prefer to have sexual intercourse.

PrEP is very likely cost-saving, i.e. it costs less than the life-long treatment of new HIV infections it will have prevented. Unless you're willing to argue that treatment for HIV infections should not be covered, your argument against PrEP is pretty weak here.

You know what costs even less, has zero side effects and protects you for a range of STDs instead of just for HIV? Condoms.

People on this thread are going around in circles arguing that:

1 - they are entitled to my taxes/insurance paying their expenses with PrEP, because they don't feel like using condoms.

2 - thinking it's reasonable, going around spreading all pretty kinds of STDs (that PrEP doesn't protect from) yet again, because they don't feel like wearing condoms.

Re: Alarming surge in drug-resistant HIV uncovered

#216

Post by paviva »

wtdata wrote: post #215
paviva wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PrEP is very likely cost-saving, i.e. it costs less than the life-long treatment of new HIV infections it will have prevented. Unless you're willing to argue that treatment for HIV infections should not be covered, your argument against PrEP is pretty weak here.

You know what costs even less, has zero side effects and protects you for a range of STDs instead of just for HIV? Condoms. People on this thread are going around in circles arguing that: 1 - they are entitled to my taxes/insurance paying their expenses with PrEP, because they don't feel like using condoms. 2 - thinking it's reasonable, going around spreading all pretty kinds of STDs (that PrEP doesn't protect from)…

So what, you'll end up paying less for their PrEP than for their HIV infection.

Re: Alarming surge in drug-resistant HIV uncovered

#217

Post by StreamBright »

malandrew wrote: post #189
StreamBright wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean US produces recently the 57% percent of new drugs. https://media.xconomy.com/wordpress/wp-content/images/2014/0... I am not sure this explains the discrepancy between the healthcare cost between US and Switzerland. More in depth analysis: "There were two causes of this massive increase: government policy and lifestyle changes. First, the United States relies on company-sponsored private health insurance. The g…

drug costs are only one piece of healthcare costs. You're comparing apples and oranges.

dillondoyle>> Fucked up private insurance in US, they charge that much and then do the reimbursement so they can bill the huge monthly cost to plans / government that will cover it.

I was reflecting to this. If drug cost is part of healthcare cost than by definition it cannot be apples to oranges comparison.

Re: Alarming surge in drug-resistant HIV uncovered

#218

Post by rowanG077 »

malandrew wrote: post #211
rowanG077 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

14.05% Is FUCKING GREAT considering they make their money over the misery of people. It's actually a disgrace that the profit margin is anything over 2%.

14.05% is perfectly reasonable considering they are giving people hope for a better quality of life. Profiting off someone's misery would be when you cause the problem and provide the solution. If you merely recognize an existing problem and provide a solution where there previously was none or where the previous solution was inadequate/inferior. Attitudes like yours makes me not want to continue using my talent to c…

I don't agree at all. No profit should be had for developing medicine. You deserve a nice salary for your work but no profit should be made by the company.

Re: Alarming surge in drug-resistant HIV uncovered

#219

Post by Jones23 »

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Re: Alarming surge in drug-resistant HIV uncovered

#220

Post by sadris »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #206
sadris wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HIV has already mutated to bypass prep. There was a case in SF about 8 months ago in the local news. Wear condoms.

Condoms are less effective against HIV than PrEP.

PrEP effectiveness against PrEP-immune HIV is zero.
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