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Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

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Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#211

Post by sundvor »

swah wrote: post #100
jinushaun wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do care, but Apple has a monopoly on making MacOS hardware and people are unable to “vote with their wallet”. Same thing with iPhones and the headphone jack.

Though on that front I feel like they did the Appleish thing: had an excuse to remove the jack (waterproofing), moved the industry in the direction they wanted, released a product that everyone loves (AirPods).

That excuse doesn't really hold water though. The S10 still has it, and is arguably every bit as "killer" as the new iPhones.

It's more like cost cutting / engineering laziness dressed up as being progressive.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#212

Post by ajscanlan »

tomwilson wrote: post #200
darrmit wrote: post #117

It’s not just the keyboard, either. I’ve been buying Macs since they switched to Intel in 2006 and the most recent MacBook Pros are the most problematic I’ve ever had. - Bluetooth seems to be fundamentally flawed at a hardware level. AirPods, Plantronics, doesn’t matter. It just randomly connects and disconnects as it pleases. - USB-C dongles are a minefield of poor functionality However, I’ve run Linux off and on si…

I'm not sure it's the MBP thats the problem with the Bluetooth - My iMac at work has the mouse disconnect randomly at least a couple of times a week.

We've also got it happening to us on our 2015 MBPs in work, at least 3 of us have experienced it. Some more than others.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#213

Post by Flow »

Nextgrid wrote: post #64
paxys wrote: post #14

> “So, just curious, why did you buy another one?” she asked, referring to the 2018 MacBook Air I’d gotten six months after selling the Pro. I was hoping she talked more about this part, but brushing it aside by bringing up "Apple ecosystem" is pretty unsatisfactory. It does tell you, though, that Apple has its target demographic by the balls, and broken keyboards are certainly not chasing them away. Macbooks will ge…

> they tried a Windows laptop and liked it This requires Windows to become likeable. I (and plenty of other people) will like Windows once it: * has a consistent UI instead of 3 control panels with icons and UI paradigms ranging from Windows 95 to Windows 10. * ships with quality applications that don't try to eat the entire screen to display 2 lines of text (pretty much all "modern" built-in apps are a disaster in t…

Another bad thing about Windows: 3 or 4 different font rendering engines.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#214

Post by dontknowme »

stunt wrote: post #39

X1 Carbon and XPS 13 are still the best hardware out there if you are using Linux.

I've been using company a provided X1, X1 Yoga 1st and now 3rd gen.

I had several issues with the arrow keys on the X1 Yoga 1st edition.

Tactile feedback while pressing but without actual keypress action on the up arrow. We had a lot of 15 of those, and the issue was present on 8 of these.

3rd edition now has the same issue on the left/right touchpad buttons (the physical ones). If you press don't press on the dead center of these keys, you feel the physical feedback, but there's no keypress action. Again, we got a batch of 15 of those, out of which 10 had this issue.

For the 1st edition the shape of the key was the issue (slant on the membrane), while for the 3rd the key is just too soft (plastic bends before pushing on the membrane).

This is the most brutal behavior a button can have. What's the point of physical feedback if it's broken?

The monitor backlight on all the X1 laptops we have (we're using them since 5 years) developed bright spots. The black level of the screen degrades pretty quickly too, settling after 3 months of normal usage. If you turn on a "fresh" X1 it has significantly more contrast than what you'll typically get a few months on.

Overall, it's still a great line (up and beyond than the HP "elitebook" series), but the keyboard and button issues are really irking me up and the Yoga 3rd edition IMHO has a worse keyboard then the 1st overall.

I sadly cannot compare with the XPS series as I never used the series long enough to judge.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#215

Post by rayiner »

H1Supreme wrote: post #137
darrmit wrote: post #117

It’s not just the keyboard, either. I’ve been buying Macs since they switched to Intel in 2006 and the most recent MacBook Pros are the most problematic I’ve ever had. - Bluetooth seems to be fundamentally flawed at a hardware level. AirPods, Plantronics, doesn’t matter. It just randomly connects and disconnects as it pleases. - USB-C dongles are a minefield of poor functionality However, I’ve run Linux off and on si…

> tune and configure it to work You really don't have to do that. For example: I put Ubuntu Mate on a 2009 Macbook that could not run MacOs anymore (too slow). I had to install a wifi driver, and that was it. Everything else worked out of the box. My current Dell Inspiron 7000 laptop is running the same OS, and needed 0 drivers installed. I put Antergos on an Intel Nuc (that I later switched to Ubuntu Server). Again,…

If you don’t have to tune Linux to get it to work, then why does every single complaint about Linux’s battery life in laptops get met with “install TLP?”

Of course Windows is shit in this respect too these days. I got two extra hours of battery life from my X1 Carbon by wiping the disk and installing Windows LTSB. But even then I still have to police things, watching for driver updates or software installs that randomly leave some service running that keeps the CPU from sleeping. It’s like nobody tests these things.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#216

Post by j2bax »

ajscanlan wrote: post #212
tomwilson wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it's the MBP thats the problem with the Bluetooth - My iMac at work has the mouse disconnect randomly at least a couple of times a week.

We've also got it happening to us on our 2015 MBPs in work, at least 3 of us have experienced it. Some more than others.

I use AirPods daily with my 2015 MBP and never have disconnect issues. When I first got the AirPods it was far less reliable but I believe a firmware update a couple months after launch cleared up whatever issues I was having.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#217

Post by snazz »

auto wrote: post #199
robertAngst wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>buy Apple device and be sure that everything there is pretty good. The alternative is that you spend 30 minutes of research and get a superior product cheaper. This isnt an opinion, this is reality. You can find a computer with better specs than Apple, cheaper. I'm not sympathetic to the 'mom' who doesn't know what RAM is, they get penalized by Apple for being an uninformed consumer. Is there any reason for a 'Nerd'…

Native iOS development (for almost a decade now, jesus), and I've yet to find a touchpad that feels as good (tell me another to go try and I promise I will, although I'm sure it'll be tough to overcome my own muscle memory/bias).

As for the touchpad, those of us with ThinkPads just use the TrackPoint, which is (IMO) better than any touchpad. Off-brand TrackPoint-esque pointing sticks (on Dells or HPs) are usually absolute junk and go to maximum speed no matter how lightly you push it.

The touchpad has the advantage of being immediately intuitive, but after a little work on an old ThinkPad (an X220 from eBay is about $130 shipped) you’ll probably be able to appreciate both sides. I like how I don’t have to leave home row to do a little clicking around.

If you end up getting a machine of that era, maybe try this guide for my favorite OS, too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18370327

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#218

Post by ainiriand »

coldtea wrote: post #198
moduspol wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like every mouse that uses a charging dock?

Yes, equally bad.

Exactly, the option to plug and use the mouse when needed should be there. That is good design, keeping your user in mind.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#219

Post by mikestew »

robertAngst wrote: post #170
Veen wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there any reason for a 'Nerd' to pick Apple? You are making a typical nerd assumption, which is to equate "better product" with "better specs".

The rest is just marketing. Apple is very good at Marketing. EDIT: Will someone explain what this theoretical 'non spec' thing that matters is? The Apple logo?

It’s almost as if an Apple troll script broke free from alpha testing long before it was ready.

“But the replies are just canned crap you found on online forums from five years ago.”

“Don’t worry, we’ll fix it before it is public-facing.”

Oops, guess not.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#220

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

darrmit wrote: post #117

It’s not just the keyboard, either. I’ve been buying Macs since they switched to Intel in 2006 and the most recent MacBook Pros are the most problematic I’ve ever had. - Bluetooth seems to be fundamentally flawed at a hardware level. AirPods, Plantronics, doesn’t matter. It just randomly connects and disconnects as it pleases. - USB-C dongles are a minefield of poor functionality However, I’ve run Linux off and on si…

It sounds like you're spending as much time on finicky Bluetooth and USB-C as you might spend on battery tuning on Linux.
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