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AMP pages displaying your own domain

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Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#211

Post by jdgoesmarching »

smilliken wrote: post #209
IgorPartola wrote: post #206

I can’t believe there is no way to opt out of AMP as the end user. The UX is so terrible. Often times I will search for something and have a Reddit result come back. When I tap the link, I get the AMP page which: * does not show all comments, often ones I am actually looking for * does not let me collapse comment sections * uses the default white background theme which burns my retinas if I am looking at my phone in…

You won't see AMP if you switch search engines.

Just this morning I got pissed off by an AMP page and was considering a search engine switch. Maybe this is my sign.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#212

Post by ddalex »

josteink wrote: post #94
gregable wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The browser displays the URL from the origin that digitally signed the unmodified content. A browser already doesn't show you what server delivered the content. That would be your wifi AP, cell phone tower, or ISP node. The internet has already long established that we can trust content without trusting intermediaries. There are two elements that are important: integrity and privacy. The content integrity is protecte…

> A browser already doesn't show you what server delivered the content. That would be your wifi AP, cell phone tower, or ISP node. No. Incorrect. Completely backwards. Factually wrong. You just failed your networking-exam. Those things you mentioned would be transparent networking nodes forwarding your TCP-packets and they have nothing to do with any layers above that. The fact that you don’t even know this completel…

I think you're missing the point of the GP. It says that you don't know and you don't care which particular server returns your content - is it a self hosted machine, is it a cloud machine, is it a CDN? No way of knowing unless you inspect the deeper stack. What you see very visible is which BRAND (I. E. URL) returned your content.

So this Amp exhange technology changes nothing in this regard. It's like Google provides its own Free CDN, it is just not done in a traditional manner.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#213

Post by api »

jsnell wrote: post #119

This is such a strange reaction from HN. The AMP cache URLs have been a top 3 complaint about AMP here. "I can't copy-paste URLs, it's hard for users to understand which site they are on, it looks like the content is provided by Google rather than the real provider", etc. Now there's a solution that preserves the preloading and validation benefits of AMP caches but maintains the original URLs, in a way that's cryptog…

I think everyone sees clearly that AMP is a power grab but fishes for proximate reasons to reject it instead of just sticking to that.

I don't care how AMP works. It's a power grab. Done.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#215

Post by 48309248302 »

skybrian wrote: post #210
48309248302 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between the web publisher controlling that abstraction and a web publisher that has been strong armed into one abstraction or another.

There are incentives, but publishers still make their own decisions.

Being penalized in the search results is outright coercion, not an incentive.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#216

Post by dwild »

duozerk wrote: post #105
meowface wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can already do that, and are doing so, through Search, Analytics (maybe), ads, etc. That war is long lost.

They can't if you block all their shitty domains and don't use google services. Things that many privacy-conscious users do.

We are talking about their AMP cache. If you don't use Google Service, except if you like to prepends their amp cache URL before your links, you'll never get there.

Their AMP cache happens only on their search service. They already know which links you click... having an AMP cache on top doesn't give them MORE information than they already get. The use of that cache also make sure the website doesn't get more information because it's preloaded.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#217

Post by londons_explore »

AlexandrB wrote: post #208
gregable wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. If you make a search query, but have not clicked on any results, you have a privacy expectation that the web servers of the search results you have not clicked on will not know you performed this query, your ip address, cookie, etc. For example, if you search for [headache] and then close the window, mayoclinic.com knowing that you made this query would probably be a surprising result. With naive prelo…

Thanks, this was very informative. I'm not a fan of AMP at all, but this helps me understand the reasoning a little bit better and why Google hosting the AMP cache is necessary for preserving privacy. At its root, I think my objections to AMP boil down to a few things: On a technical level: 1. It's buggy and weird on iOS. 2. I'm not convinced I care about a few seconds of loading time enough to justify the added comp…

2. How many URL's do you load in a day? My browsing history over the last 10 years averages to 417 pages per day. 2 seconds per URL is 35 days of my life...

I totally want that time saved if possible.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#218

Post by e12e »

jsnell wrote: post #119

This is such a strange reaction from HN. The AMP cache URLs have been a top 3 complaint about AMP here. "I can't copy-paste URLs, it's hard for users to understand which site they are on, it looks like the content is provided by Google rather than the real provider", etc. Now there's a solution that preserves the preloading and validation benefits of AMP caches but maintains the original URLs, in a way that's cryptog…

First, everyone go out of their way to break REST[1] caching by eliminating proxies from SSL (for some good, some bad - reasons).

And now we're trying to shoehorn it back in?

It used to be that a local caching squid proxy was a great way to make load times of various "front pages of the Internet" bearable on a shared low bandwidth uplink (local/national news sites etc typically being served from the cache/lan).

New ssl/tls kinda-sorta breaks that (there's no middle ground - either install intercepting cert that catches everything, or abandon caching on everything. Either cache CNN. com and medical records, email(webmail) and Facebook messages - or neither).

AMP might be a bridge too far - but some kind of (semi) public "signed, not encrypted" would still be a good fit for hypertext applications/documents - because of the caching benefits.

[1] As excellently outlined and contrasted by Fielding in his thesis: https://www.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/pubs/dissertation/top.htm

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#219

Post by ajmurmann »

delroth wrote: post #142
cannedslime wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest quarrel with this is that its just another way for google to take control over the internet. Does any other search provider than google use AMP? Does any browser other than googles own support this? How busy are you? You can't wait 0.5 seconds for an HTTP request? And you think its worth feeding google with more precise data about your movements online than they already have? And as a business integrating…

https://blogs.bing.com/Webmaster-Blog/September-2018/Introdu... Disclaimer: I work at Google, nothing related to AMP or search.

Bing is the best thing that ever happened to Google. It's the fig leave that protects you from antitrust.

Re: AMP pages displaying your own domain

#220

Post by atoav »

Tepix wrote: post #186
jimktrains2 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amp does allow Google analytics and other analytics services. Unfortunately, most places don't use server logs for much :(

Chances are if you don't want Google to serve your content to protect the privacy of your users, you don't want to use Google Analytics either. Btw your account seems rather active for an account with the description "Inactive. Deletion Requested." :-)

Or if you want that stuff to work e.g. in China.
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