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U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

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Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#211

Post by scoot_718 »

ezVoodoo wrote: post #168
educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

As one who speaks Chinese, I find what you said is a blatant lie. In deed, “打破技术封锁” means to break the technical blockade, but by means of independent innovation, not stealing "trade secrets". Given China has the biggest force of engineers and scientists in the world, it is not so hard to understand. Fact check, Huawei is the only full 5G solution provider in the world; whereas no such company can be found in the US.…

That's bullshit. Even Chinese academics in the west don't care about stealing or copying.

There's a reason nobody bothers to cite Chinese papers, it's because you should cite the original instead.

5G is a technology without purpose.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#212

Post by syntaxing »

Taniwha wrote: post #37

On what planet is the idea of making a robot with a mechanical finger to press phones to test them a trade secret .... (as a phone developer) it's so blooming obvious I've spent hours of meeting discussing exactly this It's only a trade secret if you think the entire rest of the world is stupid

Hmm I'm surprised you think it's an easy task since you're part of the industry. I've designed the actuators to do these sort of testing and I agree that this part is pretty straightforward since it's usually pneumatic for the response time. However, the instrumentation and processing side is never straightforward, especially in production. I'm guessing the trade secret is probably some sort of measurement device or some special pressure balance system on the actuators.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#213

Post by Nasrudith »

pointillistic wrote: post #5
sjroot wrote: post #3

I have to be honest — the allegations made here do not surprise me. The days of corporate espionage seem alive and well, and China’s image in the United States is taking a significant hit. It isn’t fair to the honest, hard-working Chinese nationals who want to build a life outside their homeland.

But is it fair to the Americans who lost jobs, manufacturing, future, because of the 20 years of "technology transfer" by China?

You are blaming the wrong people there. Anyone with half a brain would realize moving manufacturing into a high population country would create competitiors who now know the fundamentals of your business. And who can do the math to figure out they can claim the market taking advantage of the cheap labor and expensive markets.

But Wall Street has a frothing hatred of people who think beyond the next fiscal quarter. Just look at the sheer Tesla short ratio long after it was clear they were viable.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#214

Post by tinktank »

ezVoodoo wrote: post #168
educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

As one who speaks Chinese, I find what you said is a blatant lie. In deed, “打破技术封锁” means to break the technical blockade, but by means of independent innovation, not stealing "trade secrets". Given China has the biggest force of engineers and scientists in the world, it is not so hard to understand. Fact check, Huawei is the only full 5G solution provider in the world; whereas no such company can be found in the US.…

Ah yes, glass heart syndrome strikes yet again.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#215

Post by fdsak »

justaguyhere wrote: post #183
chillacy wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll pile on and mention that right and wrong are poorly suited for geopolitical analysis in general, it's generally understood that relationships are shaped by power and strategic alliances over principles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realism_(international_relatio...

Regardless of the countries in question, most of the time it feels like "if we do it, it is right. if you do, it isn't" is what is happening. In other words, "we are always right, you are right when it suits us and not when it doesn't" How often do countries admit they were wrong? Especially powerful nations like the U.S or China?

This just sums up the behavior of both countries.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#216

Post by mrkstu »

ahoyleo wrote: post #179
seppin wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are nakedly cheerleading for an authoritarian China and it's creepy and weird.

So it must be shills to be supportive of China? Have you considered supporting China may be quite a popular opinion among the Chinese people both domestically and overseas?

Most westerners appreciate a balance between supporting one's country of origin in a generic, thoughtful way, and unthinking jinoism[0].

Part of the mental maturity process is being able to see the greater affects of the policies of one's country on the wider world, and advocating for policies which enhance things for the greater world while still being positive for one's own country. That maturity process is naturally short circuited in authoritarian countries like China.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#217

Post by syntaxing »

Taniwha wrote: post #79
mehwoot wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the idea, its the specific technology. took measurements of parts of the robot and, in one instance, stole a piece of the robot

But why would anyone need to do that, you build one of these by starting with a cheap 3d printer and removing the print head, it's not a hard thing to make

I think the quality team will laugh at me for the rest of my life if I ever suggested using an open loop and nonsynced axis system to do testing...

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#218

Post by withhighprod »

scoot_718 wrote: post #211
ezVoodoo wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one who speaks Chinese, I find what you said is a blatant lie. In deed, “打破技术封锁” means to break the technical blockade, but by means of independent innovation, not stealing "trade secrets". Given China has the biggest force of engineers and scientists in the world, it is not so hard to understand. Fact check, Huawei is the only full 5G solution provider in the world; whereas no such company can be found in the US.…

That's bullshit. Even Chinese academics in the west don't care about stealing or copying. There's a reason nobody bothers to cite Chinese papers, it's because you should cite the original instead. 5G is a technology without purpose.

Don’t cite ResNet everyone. Fking find the original ones

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#219

Post by websterisk »

educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

I read an article a while back, probably a couple of years (sorry, I can't find/cite). The observation in the article paints this "theft" in what they perceived to be a cultural distinction...

Specifically, in the US (and the west, more broadly) we ascribe a great deal of value to figuring out "what" to do commercially and "how" to do it technically. Most of our energy around IP are wrapped around this value and defending it.

The article had observed that for the Chinese, there was no additional value ascribed to the people or groups that paved that path, but rather that there was perceived merit/value in "doing" those things better. To use an example, identifying the market and technology and usage trends to develop a valuable product is no more important or meritorious than merely seeing/understanding that product and fast-following with some other advantage. And further, there is nothing inherently negative about re-creating someone else's work for personal benefit, after all, you still need to do the work of "doing" it.

One of the conclusions drawn was that this lack of value around creativity and direct inventorship makes the Chinese a super formidable second place in many arenas but without the skills or cultural DNA to actually take the lead or be the expeditionary force... There are pros and cons to all of that (and some pretty rebuttable presumptions in the analysis) but I thought it was an interesting take that (if valid) sheds light on what we have seen, are seeing, and will continue to see.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#220

Post by CamTin »

Remember that the laws these supposedly insidious foreigners are accused of breaking are in the same moral category as the ones your beloved hacker heroes rail against. Is this a China vs US dispute, or a war by capital against people, with one of the weapons being a magical spell that turns knowledge into property that they can own and profit from?
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