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What can I do about climate change?

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211–220 of 243 posts

Re: What can I do about climate change?

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Science is never settled, but arrives at increasingly accurate approximations of reality." Not necessarily and that's certainly not settled. Kuhns paradigms is another way to think about it than Poppers idea of building knowledge as bricks that create a house. I am not convinced knowledge works the way we normally think about it. Furthermore "climate science" is not actually following the scientific principles as it…

> Furthermore "climate science" is not actually following the scientific principles as it's not falsifiable for obvious reasons. >"Climate science" is metascience in the sense that it builds on and interprets data which has its own set of issues besides the issues with data modeling. Yes, findings about climate are not reproducible in the straight and narrow sense of the scientific method, but there are methods to re…

"Yes, findings about climate are not reproducible in the straight and narrow sense of the scientific method"

Full stop.

And this is the most important misconception which most people don't understand. They actually think the science is settled and that it's provable through the scientific process.

It's not not by any stretch.

The problem is that this discussion, even the one we are having right now is mostly a politically based discussion not a scientific based one and yet non-scientists, people who have never even looked at the claims they support, will shame you for being a climate-denier for even suggesting it's not as simple as claimed.

The claims are much more extreme than what the science support.

"I take it that there is a broad consensus that climate change is man-made and that carbon emissions are very likely a huge driver of it. Many scientific professional organizations have issued statements about it. Many governments see the need to at least pay lip service to it."

But that's not what you actually find. The 97% concensus actually include the socalled climate deniers, think about that for a while.

You can't expect people to just buy something on faith when you can't actually prove your theory. Even if they are wrong, even if the claim about the consensus was right you can't actually expect them to just take it on faith, the very opposition of what science is based on.

Science does not actually build on consensus it builds on falsification if you don't have falsification you have something else and much less precise than science, yet it's sold as if it's not and as long as this is not acknowledged you will not be able to have a rational discussion let alone solution. You don't even have agreement about what the problem will be, only a set of potential outcomes which is what you do in scenario planning. It's not science. Geologists are scientists and can measure but the people interpreting the date ads a layer of abstraction, interpretation and errors that's so large that it's actually antiscientific to use the "science says" argument.

There IS disagreement, not even about whether the climate is changing but what it means and how much.

If you don't think many climate scientists play lip-service to their donors (the politicians) then you haven't looked close enough.

So there are all sorts of reasons not to just take anything by these organisations even if you agree that there is a problem and that the climate is changing. In other words you don't have to become a climate catastrophist just because you agree that climate is always going to be challenge to humans.

"No, paradigm shifts help develop new and more accurate theory, but old theories still hold. Newtonian mechanics doesn't become obsolete even if a more accurate quantum picture has been developed. Even the primitive, less precise, yet intuitive Aristotelian notion of motion can be useful in many contexts, e.g. game physics that need to enable an unreal amount of control yet feel psychologically natural."

No old theories don't still hold. They are still useful in limated scope but they don't hold as complete theories which means that things that might look like one thing isn't actually what it looks like.

In Newtons world speed of gravity is infinite, in einsteins it's not, in quantum physics non-locality “disproves” the speed of light as the most fundamental force.

Three different paradigms the two latter btw both proven to the extent we can prove things but fundamentally contradictory.

In other words, Newton + Einstein + Bohr accumulates but there are fundmaental shifts that completely changes the reality they are trying to explain.

"I don't see how the thrust of this statement is consistent with the immediate statement before"

What is it that you don't see? Are you going for a gotcha momement or are you actually trying to understand what I am saying. Can you be more concrete about what it is that you don't understand?

"I don't see how any general disposition of nature towards human society has any relevance toward my claim that solutions toward climate change must include an aspect that is not just technological products and services."

Because to understand why you won't find the solution by some human "cometogetherness/political" movement you have to understand why that won't happen.

"I contend that they can be an important part of the solution to the problem. If it becomes sufficiently socially unacceptable, these activities will see a significant decrease. Many citizens already considers many activities taboo and immoral due to the influence of their society; online fraud, adultery, taking more than their fair share of an obvious common good when they don't need it; it is possible to frame excessive air travel or meat consumption as immoral."

You can frame anything anyway you want right untill you have to live by that framing then it all falls apart. You have hundreds of millions of people if not billions who would do anything to become just a fraction as rich as you and me and do not care one ounce about their climate footprint and what you consider immoral. It's a position you can have when you have the choice and even then you are not actually able to keep it yourself as you are using some sort of computer right now and thus adding to the very problem you talk about.

"Similarly, I contend that collective agitation is important to enable the means that you cite. "more actual science, engineering and entrepreneurship" is enabled by voting for governments interested in funding research. The availability of science is enabled by the collective action of researchers and sponsors advocating for open access. The success and feasibility of entrepreneurship is enabled by voting for governments interested in limiting monopolies and anti-competitive behavior. The collective signaling of consumers that they are ready for alternatives encourage the establishment of businesses to cater to these alternatives, and to cater to them more efficiently. Without this signaling, one does not know if there is a market for it."

That's actually not even close to true which China is a pretty clear example of.

Re: What can I do about climate change?

#213
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh, I once read a booklet that had the same premise of the article. One of the suggested solutions: use less soap when doing the dishes, to preserve packaging. As I mention in a different comment, individual action is important. However, there is a large difference in effectiveness, and promoting obviously ineffective ones isn't going to convince people to do the ones that are likely to be effective.

> individual action is important. This is critically important, but the mindset of the population need to change for it to be effective. If everyone have the same mindset, things will start to change. Imagine doing a simple thing like reducing your shower time by 25% or reduce your TV watching time by 25%. With enough people doing it, its impact will be significant.

Individual action can have an effect, but those are bad suggestions that will have negligible effect unless adopted almost universally.

Things like driving less, flying less, eating less meat and buying/throwing away less stuff are things where individual actions can actually make a difference.

Watching less TV doesn't accomplish anything other making you feel like you are taking action. If you want to make a small change that will actually accomplish something, try taking public transportation or biking to work one day a week or eating vegetarian one day a week.

Re: What can I do about climate change?

#214
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no personal anecdotes to bring in here, but they said: > Part of the reason wild bee colonies are collapsing is because of the diseases cultivated by commercial colonies. So if another bee comes at the cost of multiple existing bees, that's a problem.

And why is one bee more important than the other? Not sure diseases are 'cultivated' by anyone - they are unfortunate wherever they occur. Again, not sure what the idea is.

Well, the point as I understand it is that it will eventually lead to the extinction of all/most bees - and plenty of other species, perhaps including humans.

The scale is my assumption, but the point appears clear to me.

Re: What can I do about climate change?

#215
So can anyone add some hard figures to this? How much meat is acceptable? I could be flexitarian, eating 200g meat 5 days a week, or a meatitarian eating 100g meat every day.

I might have a petrol car, but only use it once a month, or an electric car that I commute in 3 hrs a day.

Everything seems to be presented it terms of doing something 'less' or 'more'. I'm doing those things but I don't really have a good idea if I'm doing my bit, more than my bit or just making myself feel better.

And I'm not asking for one of those carbon footprint calculators that ask you how many times a week you eat meat, then confidently predicting that adds up to X tonnes of carbon.

Re: What can I do about climate change?

#216
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TV pickup problem, while valid, unjustly shifts the blame. The regular citizens have put the work to buy the TV device, and continue to put the work daily so they can pay the power and cable bills. What else would you have them do? They work hard and maybe the TV is their way to unwind. Why, again, is the citizens' fault for putting the work needed to buy their entertainment device and then making them feel guilt…

> I pay electrical bills... they sort out the details Then why are you even commenting in a thread about what can you do about climate change? Let someone else figure it all out and send you a bill!

[deleted]

Re: What can I do about climate change?

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, and many others, can definitely do a lot -- but other people have done the math and concluded that we don't amount for anything but a blip in statistics. There is a link in this thread giving the same perspective as well. I'd like the world to start attacking the source of issues top-to-bottom and not bottom-to-top. Can the citizens help? Absolutely. Will they amount for much unless corporations start taking actio…

Corporations cannot change anything on their own if they operate in capitalistic economy. They are doing exactly what's expected of them to maximize the profit. If you change your lifestyle significantly, you are not just a blip in statistics. Your actions rub off on other people, your vote supports the right people, and with enough time you help the right mindset to prevail. Besides, presuming you are not climate ch…

The only truly effective thing I do is to hold on to tech for as long as it's viable -- to send the message that I'm not okay with planned obsolescence.

But no, I'm not gonna go out of my way to religiously pursue smaller CO2 footprint at all costs. I try to make small differences but anything that severely inconveniences me is a no-no and always will be.

At least I'm not pretending for the sake of feeling good about myself.

Re: What can I do about climate change?

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, and many others, can definitely do a lot -- but other people have done the math and concluded that we don't amount for anything but a blip in statistics. There is a link in this thread giving the same perspective as well. I'd like the world to start attacking the source of issues top-to-bottom and not bottom-to-top. Can the citizens help? Absolutely. Will they amount for much unless corporations start taking actio…

A very effective way to make corporations take action is citizens making them to. Are you willing to?

Very broad and vague question.

I'm not throwing away my PC, or MacBook, or iPhone, or iPad, or 35" 144Hz display that consumes 200W. I actually need them and they actually help me live a better life.

But sure, I do use less napkins compared to 5 years ago. And I don't have a car (which is insane to have when you live in the center of a city anyway).

You'll have to clarify what do you have in mind with your question though.

Re: What can I do about climate change?

#219
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is: - Contradicting almost all of current science on the topic, without even a cursory attempt to make an argument for such a vast conspiracy - Extrapolating from a grand total of one example (Malthus), without explaining why that should be relevant 200 years later. You could just as easily point to predictions of doom before each world war, and marvel how accurately those came true. - Engaging in the g…

> Your argument is: None of what you listed has anything to do with my argument. You just wrote a wall of straw man. > - ...going complete off the deep in the end. As in "How many kids, vacations, cars, etc are created because BBC exists?", a sentence that makes me understand how my dog feels when they tilt their head just so, and look at me with their big, questioning eyes. So we are agreed. Climate change isn't tha…

You're posting flamewar-style again! Could you please stop this like we've already asked?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: What can I do about climate change?

#220

One option that doesn't get mentioned often enough, also not in this article, is simply working less. For most of the HN crowd it shouldn't be that hard. https://thecorrespondent.com/4373/the-solution-to-just-about...

For most workers this is much harder though. Low wage workers want more work, if anything. I think the only way around this is more unionised workers that can successfully fight for changes that would allow this. It would be nice if the article addressed this and proposed more union support.
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