Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year • Hacker News Board

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#211

Post by maxwell » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 12:29 PM UTC

lylecubed wrote: post #196

tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

> Do we actually want Tesla and SpaceX to fail? There are billions of dollars invested in Tesla's demise through shorts. Yes, quite a few people need Tesla to fail. A lot of those people also own media companies. Musk isn't being hyperbolic when he says the short sellers "are desperately pushing a narrative that will possibly result in Tesla’s destruction." > what kinds of people it will take to lead the next generat…

I wonder about succession at Amazon and Facebook.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#212

Post by moogly » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 12:30 PM UTC

kentrado wrote: post #71

speedplane wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're thinking about it wrong. Working 120 hours a week at a normal job is torture. Working 120 hours at something you love is just living. The 120 hour/week estimates are likely over-inflated folk-lore, but still, when you have a passion for something and care, it's not work, you're just living your life the way you want to. Many say Elon long work-weeks are super-human, they're not. He's just loves doing what he's…

Also, he is the boss so it is likely just 120 hours of delegating tasks.

Only, Musk infamously seems to be pretty bad at delegating and wants to micro-manage.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#213

Post by 3pt14159 » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 12:31 PM UTC

mattmaroon wrote: post #195

tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

As someone who has come really close on several occasions to buying TSLA puts (the options version of shorting) I think I can answer: the shorts aren't haters. The shorts don't want Tesla to fail. The shorts don't even think Tesla will fail. The shorts just think the market cap of Tesla is insane. It's higher than much larger, profitable automakers who can provably make and sell cars at scale. For Tesla to be worth i…

I've said similar things about Amazon, but I never had the balls to bet against Bezos and I'm glad I didn't. Even at 10x the earnings Amazon would still be a tenuous bet at its current market cap. I know the whole "ecommerce is a bear" and all that, but let's be real here; it isn't that much of a bear and Amazon is selling cheap Chinese shit. They're going to go the way that Ebay did.

With AI and cheap energy logistics is going to go to become irrelevant with respect to total cost and at that point what do I need Amazon for? I'll be able to ask my phone to re-up my staples and for everything else I'll purchase from the manufacturer directly. All the profit is going to go to attention and trust, which means profits are going to be centred in high value brands and influencers. If anything, I'd prefer the opposite of Amazon. Some online store that just sells the best two of _everything_ that's irrelevant (toothpaste, etc) so I don't have to think about it. Plus AWS is overblown. Sure it's got good financials, but over time, AWS is a commodity play and commodity plays lose margin over time. There is some lock-in, but it's hard to lower prices for newcomers without reducing prices for the locked-in.

But back to Tesla: You're right. It's not smart to bet against Musk. It will stay irrational for some time because great men like Musk will make the very most of their situation. Also, with this volatility I wouldn't go with puts. Leveraged shorts or selling calls sound like much smarter plays if you are going to bet against TSLA.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#214

Post by mmirate » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 12:37 PM UTC

puranjay wrote: post #57

tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

I've long resigned to the fact that there will always be ambitious assholes in the world. The best we can hope for is to corral the assholes in the right space. An asshole leading a tech/space company is far better than an asshole leading an oil company or running a country.

> corral

You do realize these are people you're talking about, not some animals to do your bidding?

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#215

Post by Kinnard » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 12:39 PM UTC

tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

Musk didn't found Tesla.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#216

Post by tomhoward » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 12:41 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #206

tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

But market manipulation is market manipulation. It is hard to have any sympathy for Musk on this matter, when in the same interview he appears to be obsessed with shortsellers, and at the same time pretends to have casually, without thinking about it, mentioned a buyout including a price, "on his way to the airport". I am struggling with the idea that if you are rich and famous, if you are a tech celebrity, somehow l…

I'm not saying laws and ethical principles shouldn't apply to him, or that he should given a pass for actual wrongdoing.

My central point is that we're not currently very capable or supportive at helping talented-but-flawed people reform, and that if we could become better at that, the world would probably be far better off.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#217

Post by mmsimanga » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 12:43 PM UTC

nostrebored wrote: post #208

mmsimanga wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the current social media age is that it is difficult to tell how serious a problem really is. Part of the outrage is attention seeking media entities. So if you asked me what was the greater problem, Musk or the gangsters terrorizing families and murdering anyone who stands up to them (this is the reality in parts of Cape Town). I would say Musk really isn't a problem. The media and politicians don't…

... what parts of CT are you talking about

Mitchells Plain. Alot of the formerly "coloured" residential area. Here are some links for more information. https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/battle-for-cape-town... https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2018-07-31-gan...

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#218

Post by gliboc » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 12:46 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #190

tomp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The VC chose the best CEO (which happened to be himself) for the company, in the best interest of the company, its employees and its shareholders. History absolves him. The real question is, were they adequately compensated for their contributions (I've no idea myself).

> The VC chose the best CEO (which happened to be himself) for the company, in the best interest of the company, its employees and its shareholders. In the same way Dick Cheney chose the best VP (which happened to be himself). > History absolves him. History absolves nothing. We've got no idea whatsoever how Tesla would have fared without a self-aggrandising marketer at the helm. Chances are it might have killed fewe…

What the fuck ? You might as well call Musk a murderer. What a crippling bias you have there.

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#219

Post by mmirate » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 12:46 PM UTC

_bxg1 wrote: post #22

archagon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but it's almost absurd to argue that Musk is the only billionaire alive whose work is a net positive on society.

Name another billionaire, other than maybe Bill Gates, who's presently doing anything good, at all.

... all of them that haven't retired yet?

Re: Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year

#220

Post by grosjona » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 12:48 PM UTC

tomhoward wrote: post #37

But, he added, “if you have anyone who can do a better job, please let me know. They can have the job. Is there someone who can do the job better? They can have the reins right now.” I think this hits at the crux of the issue around the performance/behaviour of Musk and other leaders of hugely ambitious companies. And I think it highlights the importance of thinking about what kinds of people it will take to lead the…

I think that there are lots of people who could do a better job than Elon Musk but they will never have the opportunity to prove it. The vast majority of people would know that calling the Thai cave diver/rescuer a 'pedo-guy' was a bad decision. Also, announcing that some funding was secured when it actually wasn't - That was a bad decision as well. To suggest that Elon Musk is irreplaceable is ridiculous. People used to say that Steve Jobs was irreplaceable but look at the Apple stock price now.