Frankly, 18 feels low. I would expect the number to be 10x or even 100x that.
1B (one billion), not 18
OH. Oops. Where are my reading glasses :)
Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day
211–220 of 220 posts
Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Voter ID cards are historically used to I'm so sick of this excuse. The correct response is "... so let's not do that this time, mkay?" Specifically, make them absolutely free-as-in-beer and only require minimal time and effort to obtain (benchmark: proof of address is too much effort). You do this explicitly on the basis that voting is a universal right and requiring money for it is abhorrent, as is any other obst…
If the entire point is to disenfranchise a voting base, why would the entity pushing for the adoption concede these barriers? If I am throwing a wall up, I generally don't build ladders into the wall itself.
The point is political judo. They've already advocated for ID cards, so they can't very well openly object to modifying them in a way that obviously increases freedom, at least not without tipping their hand in a more obvious way. They can't do it without cooperation, so it's possible to ensure that it can't be implemented in a disenfranchising way if the opposition wanted to, which frankly is evidence they don't.
And really, it's not an unreasonable idea. Other countries do this just fine. We just need to not mess it up.
Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There are realistic systems that are operationally secure by the given standard. Nuclear launch systems are the obvious example. AFAIK there aren't really any examples of production systems that have meaningful, formally verified security properties without gaping holes. Do you have a good paper about the full stack formalization/verification of a nuclear launch system? > “Best practice” is a euphemism for whatever…
> Do you have a good paper about the full stack formalization/verification of a nuclear launch system? Bwahahaha you're funny. > If you try to formalize everything, you'll drown. If you strategically concede defeat and admit that some parts of the system aren't possible to formalize, you can get a lot of strong guarantees. You're contradicting yourself again. There's a reason why weakness is a strength in formalisms.
> Bwahahaha you're funny.
No, I'm curious and would use that citation! Even just a paper saying "this has been done" without any details? I have a hard time believing this has been done, and people are allowed to talk about it on online forums, but there isn't a single citation even acknowleding its existence.
> You're contradicting yourself again. There's a reason why weakness is a strength in formalisms.
I'm not sure what this means, but it sounds a lot like what I've been saying all along?
Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
7% of US households don't have a bank account.[1] Many people live in walkable areas, carpool, or rely on transit. Visiting a doctor doesn't require ID. Taking a train or plane (or a bus) is easier with ID but possible without. [1] https://www.fdic.gov/householdsurvey/
Visiting a doctor does take ID if you have insurance. Also, by federal law, picking up any prescriptions that a doctor writes requires ID, certainly at least for narcotic prescriptions.
Doctors' offices generally make some effort to verify the identity of anyone not paying up front. Some insist on scanning a government-issued photo ID. Others are more flexible.
Regulations for dispensing controlled substances vary from state to state. As of 2013, only 24 states required pharmacists to verify identity.[1] Many of those regulations apply only in certain circumstances, don't specifically require government-issued photo ID, have fallback procedures, or allow the pharmacist to dispense the medication without ID if withholding it would harm the patient. Florida recently passed a law that says it's good enough if the pharmacist recognizes the patient.[2]
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/docs/menu-pdil.pdf
[2] https://www.healthlawrx.com/2018/07/florida-imposes-new-id-r...
Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, what is preposterous is that you cant imagine people with no employment, no bank account, nor vehicle to drive living in the US. Those people have a right to vote even if you aren't impressed with their quality of living.
...living in the US. Those people have a right to vote Living in the US and having the right to vote are not the same thing. Illegal aliens, temporary and permanent residents, and other people of varying status live in the US but cannot legally vote, at least in federal elections.
Right, but I was speaking about citizens. Nice deflection. People on HN are usually great but many seem to argue in bad faith and it makes me want to quit this platform (in addition to the others).
Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
What about finger paint, like most other countries use? You just simply get an unwashable ink on your thumb. It does a few things. It shows you voted already. Also, puts a little bit of social pressure on people you see who don't have the mark.
Never heard of that... fascinating! I don't think it's used in Croatia, Bosnia, US or Canada. Can you provide examples? Thx!:)
Mexico does it and just had a huge election and turnout.
Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
...living in the US. Those people have a right to vote Living in the US and having the right to vote are not the same thing. Illegal aliens, temporary and permanent residents, and other people of varying status live in the US but cannot legally vote, at least in federal elections.
Right, but I was speaking about citizens. Nice deflection. People on HN are usually great but many seem to argue in bad faith and it makes me want to quit this platform (in addition to the others).
How am I arguing in bad faith when your comment didn't specify citizens, and merely said people? My point was that there aren't many citizens that fall into the category you were talking about, but there are many people that do. Most citizens, at a minimum, have some form of government issued ID.
Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it would be reasonable to create a national ID card system and fund it through taxes. It could replace driver licenses and social security cards. I do not know why it would be unreasonable to require such a card for voting. It could also serve as a PKI system with the govt acting as a CA (i.e. manage issuance and revocation). There are non zero benefits. And this doesn't have to operate like a poll tax. I don…
> I don't understand why this isn't already a thing. Seems obvious. Because people don't want yet another mandatory way to be tracked by the government. It is especially opposed by those here illegally, their supporters, and others historically disenfranchised by more and more centralized requirements. Not everyone has driver's licenses or ssn cards. There are non-zero problems so what should be obvious is why some o…
> Because people don't want yet another mandatory way to be tracked by the government.
I constantly hear that (the majority of) people don't care about NSA spying, Facebook and Google spying, ad tracking, etc, etc, etc.
But somehow when it comes to being issued a number and a piece of plastic it would never work because people would oppose it based on privacy? I find that very hard to believe.
Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, but I was speaking about citizens. Nice deflection. People on HN are usually great but many seem to argue in bad faith and it makes me want to quit this platform (in addition to the others).
How am I arguing in bad faith when your comment didn't specify citizens , and merely said people ? My point was that there aren't many citizens that fall into the category you were talking about, but there are many people that do. Most citizens , at a minimum, have some form of government issued ID.
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Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
No need to carry an ID card if you can look up each voter's face. Electronic voting systems were supposedly created to prevent the hanging chad problem. But all we actually needed was a way to properly punch the cards instead of relying upon people to do it manually. Card punch machines have been around forever. Open source software running on a PC with a card punch attached is all we really needed. And you can count…
Why do we need to use card punch machines? Here in Missouri, we optically scan inked ballots. Inkavote is the name of the system. Why bother with punching out the card? http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-systems/oversight/vot...
You don't. Punching holes in cards is just one way to record a vote. As long as you can reliably read what's recorded, it doesn't matter.