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Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

reuters.com

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Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#211

Post by chimeracoder »

lfischer wrote: post #192
chimeracoder wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The anti-union FUD campaign in the US has contributed significantly to the erosion of middle class wages It's way more complicated than that, and it can't simply be dismissed as a "FUD campaign". Union members are actually disproportionately likely to support things like right-to-work laws, which unions dislike because it (more or less) means workers aren't obligated to be members if they choose not to. Similarly,…

Do multiple competing unions happen in the same workplace happen in the US ? As far as I have seen, that seems fairly common in the countries where I have lived (Europe only). And are there some cross-category unions (where workers in different areas and jobs are members of the same overarching organization, which sometimes organizes nation-wide demonstrations or even strikes)?

> Do multiple competing unions happen in the same workplace happen in the US ?

No, and that's basically by law. Unions lobbied (successfully) for laws which grant them permanent, exclusive access to the bargaining unit once 50% + 1 vote in favor of it.

Pretty much the only cases where you'd have separate unions are where they're representing different types of workers altogether (ie, nurses vs janitors) or when they're not actually employed by the same organization (ie, two different sets of subcontractors).

> And are there some cross-category unions (where workers in different areas and jobs are members of the same overarching organization

Yes, in fact almost every union is affiliated with a federation like the AFL, UAW, Teamsters, etc.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#212

Post by dizzystar »

brndnmtthws wrote: post #23

Happy to hear workers are standing up for themselves. The anti-union FUD campaign in the US has contributed significantly to the erosion of middle class wages over the past 50 years (check out Thomas Piketty's work if you're curious about this).

As someone who's worked union, paid dues, and was thrown under the bus, I question the FUD here. My story is far from atypical.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#213

Post by drb91 »

09094920394314 wrote: post #52
Sujan wrote: post #46

Great way to make sure in the near future Amazon will send packages to Italy from France, Austria, Slovenia or Switzerland - the countries sharing a border with them. (Same happened - and is happening - in Germany. Staff at logistics centers started to strike (in small numbers). Totally unrelated Amazon started shipping from Poland and Czech Republic)

And so will either increase prices or slow down delivery. Also, I don't know wether Italy has sane strike laws or not, but in Germany amazon would not be allowed to just fire the strikers, and there is and was non-negligible PR fallout from the strikes. Just to present the full picture. In the end, either there will be a price found. But I'd say good for Italian workers for making the labour market more of a market

Wait, germany forces you to pay people who refuse to work? There must be some sort of miscommunication here. Why would german workers ever do their job? What if the entire region shuts down—would they still have to pay workers?

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#214

Post by stale2002 »

tw04 wrote: post #171
jasode wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For the average joe who just wants to go to work and get a paycheck, the bigger picture is often lost. Isn't it possible the armchair talking heads like us are the ones missing the bigger picture and the actual workers are the ones who actually get it? Let's consider the Boeing workers in South Carolina: - 2009-09 74% of employees vote against the union and decertify it[1] - 2009-10 Boeing breaks ground on new South…

>The "uncertainty" and "doubt" in "FUD"? The South Carolina workers are quite certain and have no doubt that Seattle lost the extra 787 assembly work and it was given to SC workers without the union. That's where a properly functioning government steps in and stops it. OF COURSE private companies are going to break a union any way possible if the government isn't there to step in. If the US military said "you close t…

How about instead of that, we let the people of South Carolina decide for themselves whether they want a union or not.

The people of South Carolina seem to be quite happy with the current situation.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#215

Post by pjc50 »

petre wrote: post #145
ksec wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erosion of Middle Class "may" have started long before, but it rapidly took off after 2008. ( There are Middle Class / Level wages, but those wages dont put them in Middle Class anymore )* The way I see it, is either Government protect their Workers and working class with benefits and wages, Like what many parts of Europe have done or they allow Union to do it. And i know this is considered an extremely unpopular opi…

Well, companies will just use more robots, fire more workets. Robots don't get unionized, they don't need health insurance or the gov't to step and protect them. European economy is slow compared to the US due to high taxes, too much social protection and needless state meddling in the economy. If they introduce a tax on robots it will only get worse.

> European economy is slow compared to the US

Define "slow". Growth rates are comparable everywhere with France and Germany fractionally ahead of the US:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/31/uk-comes-bo...

(of course all of those are pretty low at the moment, which may be a more general post-2008 problem)

"Too much social protection" and "high taxes" seem to me to be memes aimed at benefiting the top 1-10%, with little grounding in truth. If you look at marginal tax rates faced by median families, and compensate for the ways in which this includes things like healthcare which aren't included in the US, it's much less of a difference.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#216

Post by CamTin »

FanaHOVA wrote: post #137
SiempreViernes wrote: post #123

The joint declaration from the unions (scanned, italian, pdf): http://www.cgilpiacenza.it/imgportfolio/14/img_6/img_767969....

They are basically saying that they talked with Amazon management and they were open to listen but not to act in order to raise their salaries and add bonuses. The reasons why they are asked it's because they have to work nights, Sundays and have forced overtime. The economy in Italy is really bad, most of my friends don't have jobs and those who do usually have ones who are just average pay (18k euros/year). From wh…

He works 37 hours at a stretch 6 days a week?

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#217

Post by konschubert »

plandis wrote: post #207
09094920394314 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so will either increase prices or slow down delivery. Also, I don't know wether Italy has sane strike laws or not, but in Germany amazon would not be allowed to just fire the strikers, and there is and was non-negligible PR fallout from the strikes. Just to present the full picture. In the end, either there will be a price found. But I'd say good for Italian workers for making the labour market more of a market

Wait, what? You can’t fire people who refuse to work? That sounds absolutely crazy.

It's calling for strike law.

You're constructing a straw man here or maybe you're misinformed: A strike is a structured process that requires a prior vote by the union members. And people don't get paid during strike.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#218

Post by Joeboy »

eru wrote: post #199
Joeboy wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I would say a tube driver is just as entitled to a decent life as an average software developer but I realize this may be the wrong audience for that argument.

Depends on what you mean by 'entitled'? In an ideal world we'd all have ponies, but in reality there's still scarcity so we have to ration resources one way or another. (And then whatever rationing system we use interacts with human incentives and lots of other systems.)

> Depends on what you mean by 'entitled'?

I'm not sure it does. I can't think of a reasonable definition whereby I consider an average software developer to be more entitled to a decent life than a tube driver.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#219

Post by nkkollaw »

plandis wrote: post #207
09094920394314 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so will either increase prices or slow down delivery. Also, I don't know wether Italy has sane strike laws or not, but in Germany amazon would not be allowed to just fire the strikers, and there is and was non-negligible PR fallout from the strikes. Just to present the full picture. In the end, either there will be a price found. But I'd say good for Italian workers for making the labour market more of a market

Wait, what? You can’t fire people who refuse to work? That sounds absolutely crazy.

It's not crazy in a civilized country. They're not slaves, you know..?

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#220

Post by johnvonneumann »

rsynnott wrote: post #177
splouk wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate?

Presumably no-one will want to strike after Brexit, due to all the Red, White and Blueness. I dunno, maybe they think May will declare herself dictator for life and ban organised labour or something?

The majority of countries are already enacting laws/frameworks/technology that would help eventually outlaw this sort of behaviour, perhaps not explicitly, but many times implicitly. For example in Australia the govt is looking to push facial recognition cameras into public places and "only use them for serious crimes where the sentence is 3 years or more". What they fail to tell you is that in Aus, public disturbance carries something like 5 years, so now there's the very legitimate worry that facial recognition could be used on people fighting for their rights and showing support. Used the Aus example because the two countries are fairly similar law wise, and with their surveillance stances.
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