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Robinhood stock trading app confirms $110M raise at $1.3B valuation

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Re: Robinhood stock trading app confirms $110M raise at $1.3B valuation

#211

“But ‘how are you going to make money long-term?’ has been a question mark” Bhatt says. Gold has answered that question.” A Gold subscription lets users borrow up to double the money in their account to trade on margin with leverage Wow, so that's effectively opening up new easy to get credit vehicles for unsophisticated investors. How could that go wrong? Even if you are a professional trader you'll take a bath on m…

Wouldn't want to enable people to make their own decisions with their money, would we? The fact that you have to make a paid account to use leverage (whereas you can trade indefinitely for free) is deterrent enough for most people who do not already actively manage their investments. I think Robinhood is doing a great service -- I just wish they would expose a better API.

>Wouldn't want to enable people to make their own decisions with their money, would we?

While we're on that subject, Pattern Day Trading restrictions[0] are a fine example of how arbitrary regulations created with good intentions can lead to negative outcomes.

How it works is that margin accounts must maintain an equity balance of at least $25,000 in order to day trade freely. Otherwise, you're allotted three round-trip day trades within a 5-day period before there's serious consequences. Cash accounts are subject to long settlement periods, so the restrictions are moot in that case.

What this means is that you can't trade equities with any sort of frequency on an account that has a cash balance below $25k—at least not if you want anywhere near full utilization of your capital. That also rules out algorithmic trading on anything but medium or long timescales.

The "protection" afforded to the uninformed retail customers it was designed to protect is questionable at best. For example: it would be perfectly acceptable to allocate 100% of your portfolio plus leverage to a single stock just before market close, become subject to after-hours and pre-market price movement, then sell the next morning. Repeat by buying a different stock that same day.

Yet, round-trip trades during market hours are heavily discouraged to the point of prohibition beyond any number that isn't trivial.

In fact, I would argue that PDT restrictions create a perverse incentive that holds people to bad trades which they would otherwise prefer to exit, subjecting them to dangerous after-hours price movement in the process.

It also creates incentive for novices to abandon equities entirely in favor of forex markets. Not exactly risk reduction.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_day_trader

Re: Robinhood stock trading app confirms $110M raise at $1.3B valuation

#212
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could introduce put options, at least.

Just so they offer some form of betting against the market. I don't care how. Creating beta-neutral systems with Robinhood would then be possible.

(Not trading advice, yada yada)

Well,

The way I approach betting against the market is inverse leveraged ETFs. If you want to bet against S&P 500, ProShares has a 2X inverse offering, and you can probably balance it with 3x leveraged gold JNUG / JDST as they track the market.

Re: Robinhood stock trading app confirms $110M raise at $1.3B valuation

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends what you want to do, I'm about 98% in plain old, boring index-tracking ETFs. But sometimes I want to take a bit of money to make some stupid bet. Yes, to gamble. And for that purpose, often having the leverage is a good thing. The way I see it, the bets are much more entertaining than those at casinos and with better odds. Maybe it's just me, but I find casinos incredibly boring, but gambling on the market ca…

What are returns like on "boring index-tracking ETFs"?

A historical returns of the stock market calculator: http://www.moneychimp.com/features/market_cagr.htm

Re: Robinhood stock trading app confirms $110M raise at $1.3B valuation

#214

“But ‘how are you going to make money long-term?’ has been a question mark” Bhatt says. Gold has answered that question.” A Gold subscription lets users borrow up to double the money in their account to trade on margin with leverage Wow, so that's effectively opening up new easy to get credit vehicles for unsophisticated investors. How could that go wrong? Even if you are a professional trader you'll take a bath on m…

Unsophisticated investors already have access to 4:1 leverage in every stock broker out there, which is quadruple the money, so you don't know what you are talking about? Surprise! Robinhood is going to make revenues like a normal broker, who at this point already have mobile apps that are just as intuitive and more fully featured.

I have accounts with traditional brokers and with Robinhood. I assure you the barrier to entry with Robinhood is far lower than traditional brokers. I could definitely see this being a major concern with the potential to ruin some unsuspecting innocently curious "investors" lives.

Re: Robinhood stock trading app confirms $110M raise at $1.3B valuation

#215
post #64

“But ‘how are you going to make money long-term?’ has been a question mark” Bhatt says. Gold has answered that question.” A Gold subscription lets users borrow up to double the money in their account to trade on margin with leverage Wow, so that's effectively opening up new easy to get credit vehicles for unsophisticated investors. How could that go wrong? Even if you are a professional trader you'll take a bath on m…

Robinhood knows that people can just buy index funds and sit (which is what I do). But this doesn't make money, so they encourage people to buy individual stocks, "whatever new Elon Musk stock is out there", and trade on leverage. To some extent they want to make Robinhood a game, rather than an investment platform.

Robinhood makes money off of uninvested capital and margin accounts, not trade commissions. So why would they care what we buy or whether we make purchases rarely or not?

Re: Robinhood stock trading app confirms $110M raise at $1.3B valuation

#216
post #34
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be questionable for investors (although trading on margin is extremely common) but gambling seems to make a ton of money for casinos, betting parlors and lottery boards, many of which have been around for "long term." Sounds more like you have moral/personal objection.

Casinos do not make money on borrowing for gambling, but on gambling.

>Casinos do not make money on borrowing for gambling, but on gambling.

That's completely false. Casinos are huge money lenders.

Re: Robinhood stock trading app confirms $110M raise at $1.3B valuation

#217
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't want to enable people to make their own decisions with their money, would we? The fact that you have to make a paid account to use leverage (whereas you can trade indefinitely for free) is deterrent enough for most people who do not already actively manage their investments. I think Robinhood is doing a great service -- I just wish they would expose a better API.

> Wouldn't want to enable people to make their own decisions with their money, would we? While we're on that subject, Pattern Day Trading restrictions[0] are a fine example of how arbitrary regulations created with good intentions can lead to negative outcomes. How it works is that margin accounts must maintain an equity balance of at least $25,000 in order to day trade freely. Otherwise, you're allotted three round-…

I recently got interested in the markets and the PDT rules are one thing that I feel I need to hear more informed opinions on before formulating my own. I'd love if more people chimed in here to put in their .02 cents on the benefits/drawbacks/intentions of the current rules.

Re: Robinhood stock trading app confirms $110M raise at $1.3B valuation

#218

Enticing millenials to "trade" individual stocks is quite possibly the most anti- Robinhood thing I can think of. The only thing more ironic would be to encourage them to take on margin...which as it turns out is literally Robinhood's business model. 99% of users on the platform will ulimately end up participating in a direct transfer of their own wealth to a more sophisticated trader or algo (i.e. The banks and hedg…

You can also scratch the trading itch by buying a small amount of some of the more specialized etfs and just holding forever. Think water is the next crisis? Look into PHO. Think India's being underestimated in the world economy or Palladium prices are going to skyrocket or the US tech sector will outperform the broad market? There are etfs for that, just use them sparingly and do your research.

Re: Robinhood stock trading app confirms $110M raise at $1.3B valuation

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets say you're unsophisticated. You say "I like my 1080ti, so I'll buy some NVIDIA stock." I'm a tech stock expert, I know NVIDIA is on a downward slope because its over-valued right now. I tell you "Sure kid, here's a promise for 100 shares at today's price of $50 each." I take your $5,000. Everyone is happy. Joe Investor doesn't actually have the stock in his possession just yet. I buy the stock myself a few days…

Well, I don't think this is a legal use of order flow (waiting days to make a purchase), but the analogy is kinda sorta on the right path. Reality is more like "I know an order for NVIDIA is going to hit at $50, but I see it for sale for 49.9998 all over the place, I can go scoop some up at 49.9998 and put for sale at 49.9999 and make some money. But then real reality is a step more complicated about when it is legal…

not illegal use of order flow

Re: Robinhood stock trading app confirms $110M raise at $1.3B valuation

#220

“But ‘how are you going to make money long-term?’ has been a question mark” Bhatt says. Gold has answered that question.” A Gold subscription lets users borrow up to double the money in their account to trade on margin with leverage Wow, so that's effectively opening up new easy to get credit vehicles for unsophisticated investors. How could that go wrong? Even if you are a professional trader you'll take a bath on m…

Few things to note:

- Robinhood Gold is not just about margin trading. It is also about instant money transfers. What truly prevents me otherwise from frequent investing is this long delay (upto 2 days) where I sell something and wait for money to be available for next purchase.

- I will happily pay Robinhood say $10 per month anyways for the kind of service they provide. Getting $2K credit for that is not really a big deal.

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