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Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

theguardian.com

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Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#211

Post by talmand »

justin_vanw wrote: post #162

More people in the US die every year from television than die from terrorism in the last 10 years . I don't mean by being sedentary contributing to heart disease. I mean physically killed by a television falling on you. http://theweek.com/articles/469421/shocking-number-deaths-ca... This article is misleading. Virtually nobody dies of terrorism. Virtually nobody dies from toddler shootings.

Especially since so many people can interpret the cause of such a death in so many ways. One person says terrorism, another says work place violence. Not many people argue over describing an accidental death caused by a toddler.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#212

Post by LyndsySimon »

maxerickson wrote: post #182
LyndsySimon wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that US criminals are more heavily-armed than those in other countries. In fact, the opposite is likely true. In the US most criminals who are armed have inexpensive, unreliable handguns. An armed criminal in the UK (while less common) would seem more likely to have something like a submachinegun or a machine pistol. If the penalty is severe and the gun is rare and expensive... why go through all that…

What about the criminals in the UK that do not obtain any firearm? Someone carrying a cheap pistol is still more heavily armed than someone carrying brass knuckles. I'm not going to go find the facts and figures, still, I'm pretty sure that the incidence of gun crime is higher in the US, pointing out that gun buying criminals in the UK probably buy nicer guns doesn't change that.

> What about the criminals in the UK that do not obtain any firearm?

There are likely a greater portion of unarmed criminals in the UK. Since their potential victims are also unarmed, that means that are at the mercy of physically dominating criminals. I fail to see how this is an improvement.

> Someone carrying a cheap pistol is still more heavily armed than someone carrying brass knuckles.

Practically speaking, a person with a 6" knife can do far more damage to a person and have a higher likelihood of inflicting a mortal wound than someone with a .38 revolver.

> I'm not going to go find the facts and figures, still, I'm pretty sure that the incidence of gun crime is higher in the US, pointing out that gun buying criminals in the UK probably buy nicer guns doesn't change that.

Yeah, me neither, and rates don't really factor into this thread. My entire point is that more restrictions means that it's in the best interest of an armed criminal to obtain the most effective firearm possible.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#213

Post by optimuspaul »

rogersmith wrote: post #203
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

Then on the other hand we have: Exhibit A) Switzerland, 25 guns for 100 inhabitants, two mass shootings in the last 100 years Exhibit B) France, extremely restrictive gun laws, two mass shootings in less than one year So there's that...

France has 31.2 guns for 100 inhabitants. Also Switzerland's gun control laws are probably more extreme than that of France.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#214

Post by skewart »

forgetsusername wrote: post #113
TallGuyShort wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> police are not routinely armed I'm a gun owner and this is the key point for me. No politician is in a position to tell me I don't need my semi-automatic pistol if every day I see a patrol car go by my house with 2 fully automatic AR-15s locked between the front seats and my local police department owns an armoured vehicle. If you really think you have a plan for getting rid of guns for bad guys as well as me, pro…

This is a good point. I think it's ingrained in American culture (and the Constitution) that part of the purpose of personal gun ownership is to curb governmental power. How can gun control be justified when police are roaming around like a para-military group?

I completely agree that the "curb government power" is a common argument for gun ownership in the US.

However, I've never understood the logic behind it. Do people really think their handgun is going to help them resist a predator drone strike? The US military is vastly more powerful than any gun owner. Do people really think they can compete? What's more, advocates of legal gun ownership often also push for more military spending (though that might be less true here on HN). Am I missing something here?

Edit: To be clear, I certainly don't mean to be dismissive of legal gun ownership - I tend to argue in favor of it. What I don't understand is the argument that gun ownership curbs government power in any meaningful way. Guns and/or shooting and/or hunting seem like great hobbies.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#215

Post by artmageddon »

rogersmith wrote: post #203
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

Then on the other hand we have: Exhibit A) Switzerland, 25 guns for 100 inhabitants, two mass shootings in the last 100 years Exhibit B) France, extremely restrictive gun laws, two mass shootings in less than one year So there's that...

How many mass shootings has France had in the last 100 years?

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#216

Post by arprocter »

agarden wrote: post #197
arprocter wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC US road deaths and shooting deaths are about even (around 30k each), although the gun figure includes suicides

You seem to be right about that. Thanks. Traffic fatalities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_i... Gun fatalities: http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states Suicides do appear to be about 2/3 of the gun fatalities.

Funny eh? Not wearing your seat belt is probably more of an issue than guns, but that doesn't make for dramatic headlines

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#217

Post by Loque »

BryanB55 wrote: post #204
anexprogrammer wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a lot of discussion at the time, and my recollection is he was already known to mental health services. The Sun et al had him painted as a rabid survivalist of course. Wiki seems to say it was retrospective diagnosis, so I'm not sure... I can understand wanting to collect, or at least try, different types, but who in the world needs an assault rifle?

"who in the world needs an assault rifle?" People interested in self defense. The term "assault rifle" or "assault weapon" was made up by the media. An assault rifle is just your typical rifle that your great grandfather would have used for hunting back in the day. It is not what the media and politicians will lead you to believe. I think what leads people to ask this question is an major misunderstanding that an "as…

What do you need a gun to defend yourself against?

In the UK someone did use a gun to "defend" themselves, against two people without guns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#219

Post by pjc50 »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #169
hnal943 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...because the criminals are. And therein lies to fatal flaw of gun control - only people who are law abiding would comply with the new laws.

I don't believe that US criminals are more heavily-armed than those in other countries. In fact, the opposite is likely true. In the US most criminals who are armed have inexpensive, unreliable handguns. An armed criminal in the UK (while less common) would seem more likely to have something like a submachinegun or a machine pistol. If the penalty is severe and the gun is rare and expensive... why go through all that…

You're thinking like an American: bigger is better :)

UK armed robberies are often [citation needed] carried out with imitation or deactivated firearms, as the robbers neither need nor want to kill anyone and it's considerably cheaper, easier to get hold of, and less illegal.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/htt... page 6 has a breakdown graph into shotguns, handguns, imitation (includes air and BB), and "other".

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#220

Post by LyndsySimon »

meaot wrote: post #166
TallGuyShort wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> police are not routinely armed I'm a gun owner and this is the key point for me. No politician is in a position to tell me I don't need my semi-automatic pistol if every day I see a patrol car go by my house with 2 fully automatic AR-15s locked between the front seats and my local police department owns an armoured vehicle. If you really think you have a plan for getting rid of guns for bad guys as well as me, pro…

Everday patrol officers having an AR-15 in the trunk is a fairly direct consequence of the North Hollywood Shootout [1]. The Miami FBI shootout also contributed to the adoption of conventional semi-automatic handguns over revolvers [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

I'd also like to point out that in the case of the North Hollywood Shootout, the responding police were able to effectively arm themselves within minutes by requesting the assistance of a nearby gun store.
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