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Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#211

Post by khedoros »

caskance wrote: post #192
khedoros wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like they're trading one bias for another. I suspect that the population of users likely to disable telemetry have a lot in common with the population of users likely to just stick with Windows 7 and remove the updates that added telemetry collection. Personally, I'd probably be satisfied if Microsoft gave me the tools to examine the telemetry that my computer wants to send. Not making that available to user…

They already made that trade by allowing enterprise customers to turn it off. They also tell you exactly what types of data they collect, along with where and how. That's not consistent with wanting to hide the extent of their telemetry.

What they do for enterprise customers is a moot point to me, an individual, when I can't buy an enterprise-edition license from Microsoft.

I've seen hand-wavy explanations, in general terms, of the data collected. I don't want that. I want to see the actual data collected from my specific machine. Even a bullet-point list including items like "total time executing binaries tagged as 'game'" would be preferable.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#212

Post by alexandrerond »

PuffinBlue wrote: post #98
rms_returns wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Open-source, meanwhile, has struggled to provide a basic desktop environment to rival the best from five years ago. Open-source is pretty young on the desktop arena. Consider that Microsoft ruled the entire nineties and tried all tricks in the book to sabotage linux. Despite this, the fact that linux desktops are even available today is nothing short of a miracle! IMHO, the GNOME and Unity desktops are mature enoug…

> Can you cite a single widely used software that doesn't have a FOSS alternative which works on Linux. Yes. Photoshop and Lightroom. And before you all jump in and slather me with suggestions of Darktable, Shotwell, GIMP, ASP, RAWtherapee et al please know that NONE of these are a true substitute for Lightroom and Photoshop. Individually you can put together a decent work flow with Linux programmes but it's slow. Pa…

>Yes. Photoshop and Lightroom.

I'm always surprised how Photoshop is the first thing that comes up when naming software not available for Linux.

Truth is, unless you're in the business, regular people don't need more than what Gimp offers. Never speak of CAD software etc...

They make terrible examples as to why not use Linux. Additionally, as a Linux user I can't think of working with Windows because all the things that it lacks: freedom, software quality (no one sane would trust software from an appstore as you can trust a distro repository), the shell, the efficient use of memory/cpu, the simple software that does the job, all the tools at hand for anything, the fact that 99% of the times the solution to your issues is in stack overflow already, the fact that you're not a customer, but a user. Linux has KDE/Gnome for those that prefer shiny heavy desktop, xfce/lxde for those that like it simple. So many things that Windows just can't offer because it tries to monetize you, regardless of it's countless teams of well paid devs. So I personally can't switch to Windows because it lacks basic functionality that I'd expect from an OS.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#213

Post by icebraining »

stonemetal wrote: post #206
rms_returns wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Open-source, meanwhile, has struggled to provide a basic desktop environment to rival the best from five years ago. Open-source is pretty young on the desktop arena. Consider that Microsoft ruled the entire nineties and tried all tricks in the book to sabotage linux. Despite this, the fact that linux desktops are even available today is nothing short of a miracle! IMHO, the GNOME and Unity desktops are mature enoug…

>Linux, an open-source project where payment isn't a top-priority for developers, but merit is! That makes nice PR to bad it isn't all that true. According to the linux foundation more than 80% of kernel development is done by people being paid for their work.

Getting paid to do something doesn't necessarily mean the payment is the top priority. They might just have been lucky enough to get companies to pay them to do what they would be doing anyway. The question is: could they get a better/higher-paying job working on something else?

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#214

Post by noir_lord »

junto wrote: post #166
MollyR wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. At work I'm forced to use windows and osx (supporting enterprise users), but I've begun testing various linux os's (mint,arch,elementary) as preparation to leave windows behind for personal use. I've actually found it to be liberating in a weird way.

Have you found a favourite distro? I started using Ubuntu a couple of years ago on my home laptop, but when that new design came out with that horrible big side bar, I kind of gave up on it. I also ended up buying a new laptop that came with Windows 7 so the Ubuntu one sits in the attic rotting. Still, I'm still tempted to move back to a good GUI based Linux distro if I can find one. I just haven't got the time these…

I use Xubuntu on Work PC, Home PC, Media PC and Laptop.

I love XFCE, It's fast, stable, easily configured, uses normal GTK stuff so fits with the Gnome apps, is a regular plain old desktop (main menu, window buttons/taskbar).

Mostly the thing I like about XFCE is I don't have to think about it, it just does it's thing, stays out of my way and doesn't break a user interface covenant I'm used to all the way back to Win95.

Of course you can run XFCE on pretty much any distro but the Xubuntu folks do an excellent job of packaging it all up and having access to Ubuntu's PPA's is a big win since pretty much everything is packaged for it.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#215

Post by Kenji »

I don't understand the hate. Windows 10 is a great operating system and I am happy to use it. It is much more stable than Ubuntu Linux or any other OS I've ever used.

"2.4 billion questions asked to virtual assistant Cortana"

Things like that are really completely harmless. Microsoft already owns your ass by means of auto-updater (so does every vendor from which you download software updates) It is not time to be paranoid. As long as Microsoft keeps releasing quality products, they can anonymously track how long Windows users watch porn for all I care.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#216

Post by CamperBob2 »

rms_returns wrote: post #88
agentultra wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went the other way around. I started with your conclusions and have been migrating to the Apple ecosystem and am tempted to move to Windows. I had become tired of the dearth of issues that crop up to maintain an Arch desktop distribution. While the privacy collection issues should be addressed and be transparent to end-users I think open source is not the way to go for these devices. I'm tired of each device being…

> Open-source, meanwhile, has struggled to provide a basic desktop environment to rival the best from five years ago. Open-source is pretty young on the desktop arena. Consider that Microsoft ruled the entire nineties and tried all tricks in the book to sabotage linux. Despite this, the fact that linux desktops are even available today is nothing short of a miracle! IMHO, the GNOME and Unity desktops are mature enoug…

Consider that the OS that powers all kinds of devices from satellites to embedded devices is Linux, an open-source project where payment isn't a top-priority for developers, but merit is!

Of course, something that satellites and most embedded devices have in common is minimal need for user interaction. It would be perfectly unsurprising if the world's best embedded OS turned out to be the world's worst desktop OS.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#217

Post by CamperBob2 »

blub wrote: post #178
Sanddancer wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried using a fully Open Source desktop from 1998 to 2007. I finally gave up, because things were "better" but still far worse than windows. It's only gotten worse since then. One of the biggest examples I can see right now is the support compiler chains give in terms of the development process. Visual Studio makes simple what open tools like emacs make near impossible. Remote debugging on windows is a matter of do…

Remote debugging is actually quite simple when using QtCreator, gdb and gdbserver. MISRA-C is not just "more rigurous" checking, it significantly restricts the way C is written. It is also a commercial standard that must be bought by implementers. IMO Windows is a primitive development platform out of the box, one needs to install many tools, a lot of them commercial to replicate what's available on Linux. I've done…

There is nothing even remotely "primitive" about Windows as a development platform. You let the air out of your own argument when you say things like that.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#218

Post by gottam »

lewisl9029 wrote: post #64

I still can't imagine why Microsoft would think it's worth the bad publicity to not offer the option to disable telemetry, considering how few people tend to deviate from defaults in general, and how tiny a percentage of their users even care about privacy to begin with (evident from the commercial success of Windows 10). They've been getting so much goodwill for all the other great things they've been doing lately.…

The more baffling thing is they went as far as to prevent you from blacklisting the telemetry servers via hosts file. The data SO important to them they put that amount of effort into obtaining it.

The only reason I can think of that doesn't resort to tin foil hat theories is to prevent a rise of "windows 10 privacy enhancement" software.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#219

Post by gottam »

dimman wrote: post #57

From the MS blog mentioned I find this section, or how it's formulated, rather interesting and disturbing: "3. Advertising Data We Don’t Collect Unlike some other platforms, no matter what privacy options you choose, neither Windows 10 nor any other Microsoft software scans the content of your email or other communications, or your files, in order to deliver targeted advertising to you." Most people would read that a…

It's because they DO look through people's files for their own purposes. Example:

https://blog.onedrive.com/onedrive_changes/

> a small number of users backed up numerous PCs and stored entire movie collections and DVR recordings.

I'm pretty certain they didn't get permission to look at their users movie collections or DVR recordings, they were just flagged for high usage and they went right in to see what those users were storing. For any form of data collection they do, it's a guarantee they're analyzing the outliers... in fact they're practically bragging about the fact they do.

Re: Microsoft reveals details of Windows 10 usage tracking

#220

Post by voltagex_ »

gottam wrote: post #218
lewisl9029 wrote: post #64

I still can't imagine why Microsoft would think it's worth the bad publicity to not offer the option to disable telemetry, considering how few people tend to deviate from defaults in general, and how tiny a percentage of their users even care about privacy to begin with (evident from the commercial success of Windows 10). They've been getting so much goodwill for all the other great things they've been doing lately.…

The more baffling thing is they went as far as to prevent you from blacklisting the telemetry servers via hosts file. The data SO important to them they put that amount of effort into obtaining it. The only reason I can think of that doesn't resort to tin foil hat theories is to prevent a rise of "windows 10 privacy enhancement" software.

Do you think the hosts file protection might be a side-effect of increased malware protection in 10?
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