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I would have hired Doug, but...

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Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#201

Post by weavie »

derefr wrote: post #13
intrasight wrote: post #6

When I was a young man, a slightly older associate told me that "programming is a trap". What he meant is that if you are relatively smart, you can get a CS degree, get good at it, and go earn a fantastic income right out of school. I heard the words. I understood the words. I agreed with the words. Even now, 30 years later, I keep asking "is this a trap that I choose to remain in?" I still love programming, but it i…

A trap, compared to what? Is plumbing a trap? Is finance a trap? Is hairstyling a trap?

I imagine any career path you specialize in can be considered a trap. The more time you invest in, the more it feels like you have to stick with that path so that time doesn't get wasted.

My friend who was a plumber recognized this. He also realised that plumbing is not something that you want to be trapped in. As you age it get's harder and harder to be constantly crouching down and contorting yourself into those hard to reach areas. So he jumped ship and is retraining as an architect.

Programming doesn't have that limitation. Barring the odd bit of RSI there is nothing to stop you coding until the day you drop.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#202

Post by weavie »

jakejake wrote: post #98

I read an article recently that said something to the effect that most people stop listening to new music at age 33. I kinda feel the same about programming. There are a lot of people still doing it, but not as many that are truly excited about learning new things. When we bring on young people they have a ton of energy and are excited to try every new thing which, don't get me wrong, is awesome. But they do occasion…

I'm 41. Started learning Lisp at 40. Never been more excited about programming!

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#203

Post by porker »

This is a great thread. What I have appreciated most is seeing the long-term vision that older programmers have - thinking in terms of change over decades, not years.

Working in the web industry, the second-hardest thing I find (after pace of change/fascination with "New! Shiny!") is the vision of people can be measured in months to 3-4 years. Applications are not built with the thought they will be running in a decade; it's assumed they'll be rewritten in New Language X with New Architecture Y long before that.

To older programmers: if you work in the web field, how do you handle/deal with this?

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#204

Post by spacemanmatt »

hoprocker wrote: post #11
curun1r wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I see too many older developers who complain about ageism, but what's really going on is that they're essentially the same developer they were 2-3 years into their career. If you've been working in the industry for over 20 years, employers can and should expect that you've made the most of it. Those developers have very few problems with ageism. It's the ones that have become comfortable and stagnated that have…

Who was it that said, "It's not 10 years worth of experience, it's the same year repeated 10 times"?

Someone with 10 years of experience, unable to recognize the nuances one picks up by repeating those 10 years of experience with 10 years of context to make better sense of it.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#205

Post by spacemanmatt »

brlewis wrote: post #31
guard-of-terra wrote: post #3

I'm 30 now (from time to time I feel that I've already lived enough and am mostly done), the idea of expecting at least 30 productive years ahead of me is intriguing.

Think about what "mostly done" means, assuming you're a software engineer.

Or, why we switched to the vocabulary of "in production" or "shipping"

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#206

Post by spacemanmatt »

Cymen wrote: post #74
ErikAugust wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should quit now, and try working a multitude of other jobs. Come back to us and see if your definition of 'trap' has changed, or expanded. Software engineering is such an entitled world, it is ridiculous. As someone who has seen the world of menial work, I will never, ever leave it. I feel blessed. You should too. You just don't know it.

I feel blessed too. I truly love what I do for a living and couldn't imagine it being any other way. And for that I feel extremely lucky.

I always say doing software beats working for a living.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#207

Post by cositarica »

logicallee wrote: post #25
intrasight wrote: post #6

When I was a young man, a slightly older associate told me that "programming is a trap". What he meant is that if you are relatively smart, you can get a CS degree, get good at it, and go earn a fantastic income right out of school. I heard the words. I understood the words. I agreed with the words. Even now, 30 years later, I keep asking "is this a trap that I choose to remain in?" I still love programming, but it i…

the fuck! This is like someone telling you your fiancée is a trap, because she is amazing and perfect for you, you have everything in common and you will end up happy and together forever . like a black hole of perfect happiness - you'd better turn away before you're past the event horizon. Odd advice to say the least. :)

...you're a virgin, right?

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#208

Post by kinleyd »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #39
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me 3! 56, first prog job was in '87. Now I'm steadily employed in a dream job, working from home, writing mobile apps and exploring new "IoT" technologies. If this job ends, which all jobs do sooner or later, I'm hoping to starting my own company, finally, and ride that into retirement. But life continues to be an adventure and you never know what lies around the next bend in the road!!! Best of luck to you and to pe…

Let's make it an even 4! Just turned 50 yesterday. Wrote my first contract program in 1982 when I was 17. Today I teach teams how to rock-and-roll. I also keep coding, but mostly as a hobby. It has nothing to do with programming -- I simply have too many irons in the fire to do all of the things I love as much as I want to.

I'll be 52 this November. Have been coding mostly as a hobby since '83, with peaks in programming intensity at different stages of my life: sometimes to scratch an itch and sometimes doing some contract/consulting work. Still try to hit the computer whenever I can, but my health's been letting me down lately - nothing too bad, but it's been affecting the focused time I need to do programming right.

So now when I sometimes think of my mortality, the thing I regret is the programming I can't do when I'm gone. Or maybe there is programming after death? I'm hopeful. :)

In the meanwhile, the free time that's opened up from not programming as much is being wisely invested. I'm working hard on my guitar, and before I go dammit, I'm going to shred like a pro!

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#209

Post by mauricemir »

learc83 wrote: post #44
thinkmac wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, it is good that you like the things you do. at your age, we youngsters tend to expect you to be in the management level, not at individual contributor level. from time to time, i would see our team hiring engineer with gray hair and requiring special mechanical keyboard, and we all thought "mm.. interesting."

>requiring special mechanical keyboard Well youngster, you seem to be falling behind the latest trends. Maybe you're not as young as you think. Don't you know all the fashionable programmers/gamers are using mechanical keyboards?

IBM Type F or M - which r3minds me must build that Aurduio Base USB converter of my Type F

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#210

Post by romankolpak »

lectrick wrote: post #133
michaelangerman wrote: post #19

I am 55 and have been programming computers since 1975 when I was 15 years old. Do the math, I have been programming now for 40 years. Recently, I had a conversation with someone else about this topic and I told them that I have never been so excited about my career, the field of computer science, and most importantly the opportunities that exist today in the field of technology. The excitement surrounding too many t…

I’m 43 and I do worry about this. But… not so much. Been programming since 1982 when I was 10... on a Commodore PET. I was instantly addicted, even though it was a green on black screen, needed to load code on a slow cassette-tape device, and was slow as heck. ;) You see, in this career you have to be willing to drop everything and learn a new thing. All the time. Make learning new things part of your career. My stra…

is Elixir a new trend? Because it seems I'm completely out of the loop here.
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