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Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

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Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#201

Post by alasdair_ »

robjh wrote: post #197
alasdair_ wrote: post #175

Official Groupon response: https://engineering.groupon.com/2014/misc/gnome-foundation-a... "There is some recent confusion around Groupon’s intended use of a product name that the Gnome Foundation believes infringes on their trademarks. We love open source at Groupon. We have open sourced a number of projects on github. Our relationship with the open source community is more important to us than a product name. We’ve…

Looking for another name IS the appropriate resolution.

Offering GNOME a bunch of money to use the name in a specific context could be another. That could be a win for the project overall.

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#202

Post by JoshTriplett »

natch wrote: post #195
alasdair_ wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the statement from Groupon ( https://engineering.groupon.com/2014/misc/gnome-foundation-a... ) that if they can't work something out with you, they will choose another name, do you still plan on raising the $80K?

Obviously Groupon's definition of "working something out" would include doing so by brute force (bulldozing over Gnome's interest with lawyers and money), so you have to read what they say carefully, and not assume they are giving up.

Well said. The tone of that response doesn't match the tone of our previous attempts at discussion. We'll have to see how things go.

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#203

Post by CaptainZapp »

alasdair_ wrote: post #175

Official Groupon response: https://engineering.groupon.com/2014/misc/gnome-foundation-a... "There is some recent confusion around Groupon’s intended use of a product name that the Gnome Foundation believes infringes on their trademarks. We love open source at Groupon. We have open sourced a number of projects on github. Our relationship with the open source community is more important to us than a product name. We’ve…

I may regret this, but based on this response there's only one conclusion to come to:

You folks (Groupon) are full of shit!

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#204

Post by viscanti »

Fard wrote: post #126
marknutter wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has Uber done?

This for example. http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/26/6067663/this-is-ubers-play...

Except that was actually good.

http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/virtues-ubers-ope...

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#205

Post by dalke »

dragonwriter wrote: post #194
dalke wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not true subsets like you suggest. Consider that moral rights, which fall under intellectual property law, don't fit into the "property" category. For example, the "right [of the author] to prevent the destruction of a work of art if it is of 'recognized stature'" is not something which is true of anything I know of outside of creative works. In German law, the inventor of a patent has the right to a share…

> Those are not true subsets like you suggest. Yes, they are. > Consider that moral rights, which fall under intellectual property law, don't fit into the "property" category. Moral rights absolutely fall under the property category. > For example, the "right [of the author] to prevent the destruction of a work of art if it is of 'recognized stature'" is not something which is true of anything I know of outside of cr…

You are right. My examples were not valid counter examples.

I think of a property right as something which is transferable. The two examples I gave were of rights that were not transferable. However, if "Personal Property" also includes non-transferable rights, then there's no conflict.

As a clear counter-counter-example of why my counter-example is wrong, tenancy rights are part of real property law, and may or may not include succession rights.

My comment then transforms to the (trivial) observation that intellectual property ⊄ real property.

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#206

Post by apetresc »

scrollaway wrote: post #181
snsr wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The move comes across as particularly hypocritical after reading this recent Groupon Engineering blog post titled Sharing is Caring: Open Source at Groupon : https://engineering.groupon.com/2014/open-source/sharing-is-...

Follow-up, even more confusing post from Groupon: https://engineering.groupon.com/2014/misc/gnome-foundation-a...

I e-mailed Groupon directly about it, they sent me the same response, word-for-word. It's clearly a canned text their PR firm gave them to paste.

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#207

Post by mahouse »

WoodenChair wrote: post #168
mahouse wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government should do it. If they give you the means of registering a trademark, they should at least be able of determining if a claim is valid.

Right because I really want some randomly assigned government bureaucrat making an argument one way or another on my behalf before whoever decides the matter...

What I mean is that the government itself should evaluate the matter and then decide it, all by itself.

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#208

Post by vec »

skratlo wrote: post #35
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, the rule is that if you don't step up yourself to defend your trademark whenever someone else tries to use it, your trademark becomes void.

Could you kindly explain me then what's the point of registering a trademark? Is it something you can then wave with in front of jury? Do you really need $80k for that? Do you need $80k to print out your accepted trademark application, and prove that you're in the business for 17 years? Sorry this is just complete non-sense and failure of the system.

No, you need that 80k to argue that Groupon's proposed product would infringe your trademark.

US trademarks are only good for the line of business I'm in. If I were to publish a software product called Mustang, for example, Ford wouldn't be able to sue me for copyright infringement. My product shares a trademark with one of theirs, but it's in a different enough market that the two trademarks don't conflict with each other.

It sounds like Groupon's proposed product is point of sale hardware. That's different enough from a desktop window manager that Groupon can quite possibly get a lawyer to convince a jury that they're different businesses. Therefore GNOME Foundation has to pay a lawyer to stand up and argue the other side of the case.

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#209

Post by rasengan »

scrollaway wrote: post #181
snsr wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The move comes across as particularly hypocritical after reading this recent Groupon Engineering blog post titled Sharing is Caring: Open Source at Groupon : https://engineering.groupon.com/2014/open-source/sharing-is-...

Follow-up, even more confusing post from Groupon: https://engineering.groupon.com/2014/misc/gnome-foundation-a...

The most confusing part is how a post on HN with record breaking up votes suddenly falls off the front page just as Groupon issues their response. Is there biased moderation occurring? I reached out to YC for clarification and help. Hopefully I'm wrong and just jumping to conclusions without knowing all the facts. :)

Re: Help the Gnome Foundation Defend the Gnome Trademark Against Groupon

#210

Post by towelguy »

km3k wrote: post #191
jenscow wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They settled for a boatload of money I wonder if the GNOME foundation would "sell out" - who should decide, and how much is it worth...?

Selling out could be worth it given the right amount of money. Open source projects have changed their names in the past. And a settlement that could fund developers would be a nice benefit for GNOME.

They could rename to DesktopD :)
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