A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son • Hacker News Board

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#201

Post by clarkmoody » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:33 PM UTC

danielweber wrote: post #143

clarkmoody wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the mentality among the police is "I'm going home tonight, no matter what." Given the opportunity to wear body armor and carry a rifle when confronting a perceived threat, many will take it.

They also have the opportunity to not enter the house. There is a reason that burglary is dangerous: it invites a confrontation that doesn't have to exist. I'm not so starry-eyed as to imagine that the cops never need to enter a house forcefully. But they can make this happen at a time and means of their choosing. They can watch to determine how many people are in the house. They can wait for some suspects to leave a…

Well sure, but the policy as it stands is to send SWAT into the house in the dead of night. Obviously, we need some sort of policy change.

My comments speculate upon the mindset of those involved in these raids regarding their choice of weapons and gear. They know they are going into a house, that much is given.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#202

Post by silverbax88 » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:33 PM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #126

silverbax88 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race has nothing to do with it. Lots of meth labs getting busted in rural America are run by white dealers.

White people get arrested sometimes. That doesn't mean that the war on drugs doesn't have a race discrepancy problem[1]. [1] http://academic.udayton.edu/race/03justice/crime09.htm

You guys are killing me. I'm Mexican-American. I grew up an an urban U.S. city where many of my neighborhood pals ended up 'locked up or covered up'.

I have a pretty good understanding of race and the 'war on drugs.'

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#203

Post by joeevans » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:35 PM UTC

Some departments apparently restrict people with IQ's over a certain limit.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/sto...

Makes you wonder if we really should be militarizing them.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#204

Post by opendais » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:36 PM UTC

moggflunkies wrote: post #156

dublinben wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-violent crimes turn into violent standoffs when the police routinely respond to them with aggressive raids. This is completely a product of escalation between the illegal gangs and the 'legal' gang.

ITT: people who have never been in law enforcement or military service. >drug offenders are perfectly well adjusted people, just politely knock they will let you in every time. >drug dealers don't flee the state/country when they suspect being watched/followed/pending arrest >I wonder why it's called a "trap house" I hope that you live in an upper middle class community in California to justify the logic behind your…

No?

You just don't do it for the pot dealer down the street. Instead, you wait for him to leave and break in to get what you need. Preferably in a way that isn't visible from the street so you can arrest the guy before/after.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#205

Post by hughw » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:36 PM UTC

seanmccann wrote: post #83

iagooar wrote: post #25

When I read stuff like this, I'm really happy that I am not living in the US. It sounds so crazy to a European person, I can't really imagine how Americans manage to normally live their lives.

I live in the US and have never had to deal with this and live a normal life. I am by no means defending this, in fact I think it's disgusting and awful, but it's not happening on every single street in the county. Yet.

It mostly happens to a different demographic than the one that reads HN.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#206

Post by matwood » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:36 PM UTC

moggflunkies wrote: post #174

ganeumann wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even easier: wait for the suspect to leave the house, arrest him , then go do a leisurely search without having to worry about the suspect being violent.

LOOOL How about real life happens in your story: - Look outs realize there is an anomalous vehicle staged in the neighborhood & alert the team. How do you not get detected? - Drug dealers arn't home so they send a child/girlfriend to pickup the stash/cash from the home. Do you arrest and charge the 14 year old son of the dealer? - Dope boys have children/women runners do the logistical aspects. Arrest the dealer, go…

Huh? If you have evidence for a warrant on a supposedly dangerous dealer you don't need to catch them with drugs. Simply wait them out for when they leave their house and pick them up then.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#207

Post by aestra » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:38 PM UTC

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #140

silverbax88 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds crazy to Americans, too. This isn't happening everywhere and the only accounts are those like this online.

A college acquaintance was tackled by a SWAT officer, still blinded from looking directly in surprise at the flash bang that had come through his window, bound with a zip tie, then "accidentally" kicked in the face as they tore his entire apartment from floor to ceiling looking for the cocaine being sold. When they didn't find anything in any room, they started tearing open his bedroom walls with an axe, sure he was…

>Another time, I left my apartment to walk to the convenience store across the street once and was immediately met with six Springfield (OR) Police officers with weapons drawn, pointed directly at my center mass. I was ordered to kneel, not move, and provide identification, conflicting orders with which I was afraid to comply due to itchy triggers in my face; they ended up pushing my face into the sidewalk and taking the identification themselves. They thought I was a car thief they had been chasing.

This happens with surprising frequency from what I hear. I know of a couple people with almost the same story.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#208

Post by cgh » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:38 PM UTC

simplemath wrote: post #73

vdaniuk wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we factor in the largest prison population per capita in the world and transfer of surplus military gear to police to nullify the 'big place' factor?

Yes. The "we're big, these events are outliers" meme is patently false.

My point was most Americans have no experience with these sorts of events despite their apparent pervasiveness, just as most Europeans have little experience with far-right parties despite their recent successes.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#209

Post by arethuza » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:38 PM UTC

glogla wrote: post #167

arethuza wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I was also contemplating some kind of dismissive reply then I remembered I am reading an excellent book about the Saville Inquiry into Bloody Sunday (which I am old enough to just remember happening) and decided not to make that kind of comment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_%281972%29 [Yes, it was a long time ago, but I don't think anything about our society here in the UK has changed to such an…

Yes, it doesn't seem that much has changed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menez...

Thankfully it didn't take 30 years to admit that killing Jean Charles de Menezes was a mistake.

Actually, on the that subject I'm not particularly worried about a general level of violence by police in the UK. However, I am concerned that we could see something like the Troubles again if we continue to treat immigrant populations as scapegoats for all the ills in our society.

Re: A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son

#210

Post by moggflunkies » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 6:38 PM UTC

kika wrote: post #193

rayiner wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just senseless ranting. 1) It's unconstitutional, as a violation of due process, to suspend officers without pay, before they have been adjudicated as having done something wrong. 2) It's probably unconstitutional to impose forfeiture of vested interests as punishment for a crime. 3) Premediated murder requires specific intent to kill. Even if the kid had died, it would most likely be negligent homicide. 4) R…

> Premediated murder requires specific intent to kill. Even if the kid had died, it would most likely be negligent homicide. Honest question: I'm walking past the somebody's house with an assault grenade in my hand. I feel miserable and I throw the grenade into the window. 5 people die. Is that negligence? I didn't know whose house is it, is there any people there, etc.

Your own honest question has an implicit answer in the fact that you can't indiscriminately throw shit into peoples property. Even if it was a barbie doll you threw in there and it killed 5 people.