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Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

sciencebasedmedicine.org

201–210 of 232 posts

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, how many times does the link between vaccines and autism have to be disproven before people get it? On the other hand, there is a direct link between not being vaccinated and getting sick. Probably why they want to vaccinate against everything. Even chicken pox can cause more severe disease like shingles [1]. You wouldn't want your kids riding in a car with only the safety features that existed when you wer…

>Honestly, how many times does the link between vaccines and autism have to be disproven before people get it? Honestly, there are many possible adverse reactions, and honestly, I want to see lots of good data. I know it may be costly, I don't care. I want to see the little bumps and dips in the plots of efficacy and safety for various vaccines. I want continuous quality control. I want it published publicly where th…

"I know it may be costly, I don't care."

This is all part of the cost/benefit analysis. How much do we need to spend in order to say that the data is good enough to use?

"I want it published publicly where the incidences of vaccine related injury were investigated, a cause found, and a problem corrected."

It is published publicly. Download the entire data set yourself. It's available at http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index in CSV format and through the CDC WONDER on-line tool at http://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html .

Make sure to read the big warning messages. It's not possible to establish a cause from this data.

> More than 10 million vaccines per year are given to children less than 1 year old, usually between 2 and 6 months of age. At this age, infants are at greatest risk for certain medical adverse events, including high fevers, seizures, and sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). Some infants will experience these medical events shortly after a vaccination by coincidence.

> These coincidences make it difficult to know whether a particular adverse event resulted from a medical condition or from a vaccination. Therefore, vaccine providers are encouraged to report all adverse events following vaccination, whether or not they believe the vaccination was the cause.

How much money and time should we spend to determine a causal relationship? More importantly, what do we do when we don't have those resources?

This is all part of the cost/benefit analysis.

"it cannot be considered conclusive, because the data collection methodology is crap. Would the manufacturer or FDA allow autism to be in the following list if either could conclusively exclude it?"

You have misunderstood the list. It's a complete list of serious and uncommonly high occurrences. They are not allowed to exclude autism. More importantly, if they excluded something only to find that it shouldn't have been excluded, then they can be sued.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have also never seen a case of autism. Not sure where you live. There are two kids with autism on my block. Both young boys. Autism is a common disease where I live in the midwest. We have 3 large organizations that only work with Autistic kids. My wife and I have 3 kids and vaccinate them selectively on our own schedule. We vaccinate our kids for the same things that we received as children, nothing more and not…

Honestly, how many times does the link between vaccines and autism have to be disproven before people get it? On the other hand, there is a direct link between not being vaccinated and getting sick. Probably why they want to vaccinate against everything. Even chicken pox can cause more severe disease like shingles [1]. You wouldn't want your kids riding in a car with only the safety features that existed when you wer…

[deleted]

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#203
post #174

Spend some time in the autism community, as a parent of a child with autism, and meet other parents of children with autism, and you might have a different opinion about whether children can be vaccine injured after you hear the same stories over and over again.

Man, I wish I could down-vote this idiotic comment. Changes in the brains of infants who later developed Autism have been observed before those infants ever received their vaccinations.

You're not actually disagreeing with my point, but I'm not going to engage in a conversation that begins with an ad hominem.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#204
post #174

Spend some time in the autism community, as a parent of a child with autism, and meet other parents of children with autism, and you might have a different opinion about whether children can be vaccine injured after you hear the same stories over and over again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Thanks for the non sequitur.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#205
post #174

Spend some time in the autism community, as a parent of a child with autism, and meet other parents of children with autism, and you might have a different opinion about whether children can be vaccine injured after you hear the same stories over and over again.

From another parent of a child with autism, I have two things to say: 1) it's clear from the science that vaccines do not cause autism. Autism becomes noticeable about the same age as vaccination, but its causes are earlier. 2) refusing to vaccinate simply means that you put your autistic child and mine at risk of other diseases. Get educated and stop doing the wrong thing.

I didn't say vaccines cause autism, but thanks for regurgitating the usual non-conversation at me.

If you would like to discuss the idea that vaccines can pull the trigger on particular children who are born with a loaded gun, then maybe we can have a constructive conversation.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#206

I've had the fun experience of debating with anti-vaccine people. Outside of the religious 'god will protect us' line, which I can't really argue with as it's a matter of faith, the vaccines cause autism line keeps coming up. Unfortunately for us a condition that we don't really understand is far more prevalent than the side-effects of preventable diseases. I've never met anyone who's experienced post-polio syndrome…

Personally, I've seen a lot more vaccination refusal among left-wing anti-corporate types than among the devoutly religious. That may be a function of my usual peer group, but to solve this problem it's going to be important to recognize how widespread it can be.

The last big outbreak of polio in the US was among the Amish, in the 1970s.

Historically, members of Christian Science have been against vaccinations (and other forms of medical treatment) since the Compulsory Vaccination Act in England in 1855. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science#Avoidance_of_... .

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#208
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last year the flu vaccine was only about 35% effective in my area and the world didn't end. In a normal year you're in no danger from the flu unless your pulmonary or immune systems are compromised. Of course that's not true every year.

> In a normal year you're in no danger from the flu unless your pulmonary or immune systems are compromised. As the parent of twins born three months early, that sort of attitude is distressing. Vaccination protects more than just the person vaccinated.

Don't misread me. I'm not saying people shouldn't get vaccinated. All I'm saying is we have a pretty good idea what a "normal" non-vaccinated flu season looks like.

Of course getting vaccinated is the right thing to do, even if it's only partially effective. My dad has emphysema, so I know where you're coming from.

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#209
post #6

Way to miss the point. This is so much bigger than just vaccines, encompassing distrust of authorities, misunderstandings about the existence of god, etc. But sure lets focus on vaccines.

>...misunderstandings about the existence of god...

What does that mean, exactly? Do you know something the rest of us don't?

Re: Infectious disease doesn't care why you're unvaccinated

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccines don't work 100% of the time. That's why you shoot for herd immunity. Vaccines aren't to keep individuals from getting sick; they're to prevent outbreaks and pandemics. That they prevent most people who receive them from getting sick is an added benefit.

>That they prevent most people who receive them from getting sick is an added benefit. You'll have a lot better luck selling vaccines to people if they provide a direct benefit.

I'm not a salesman.
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