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Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

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Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#201

Post by YZF »

gman83 wrote: post #172
whatsThisBtn4 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd split it into 2 camps. Elites who realize Europe isn't a unified group or has a military strong enough for defense.. And people who get wet when France says they are going to send soldiers to Ukraine and it never materializes. The general population has 0 understanding of international relations. It's the United States and China right now. Any other belief comes from someone who has read 0 international relations…

Its not that Europeans havent read Mearsheimer. its that for the best part of three hundred years the whole of Europe has been trying that same realist script until there was nothing left but total ruin across the entire continent. Europeans who created the EU knew about balance of power geopolitics so well, they created this slow bureaucratic mess specifically to stop Germany and France sliding back into the same ol…

I would bet any amount that if you go to a random European city and stop 100 random people on the street you'd be lucky if one person has even heard of Mearsheimer. I think you're also overthinking how the EU got created. I don't think pre-EU Europe was on the brink of violence either. It was more IMO simplistic (but possibly correct, who knows) thinking that it's stronger (economically) as a block. A lot of present day Europe issues that might lead to bigger problems are potentially worse because of the EU.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#202

Post by lostlogin »

xyzelement wrote: post #146
hypfer wrote: post #22

This is a huge success, but it I think also tells us that the EU is further decoupling itself from the US. Slowly but steadily. Which is obviously the right thing to do, but it's interesting that it's not just a hypothetical anymore.

Does it mean that? Europe has had a space agency for a while now. So this story isn't "Europeans finally started to launch for space" but a private European company chose to launch from a continental location. It's funny how we can't be celebrate a European achievement without trying to interpret it into relationship to the US.

> It's funny how we can't be celebrate a European achievement without trying to interpret it into relationship to the US.

It really isn’t funny. The US shat the bed and for now the repercussions are mainly being felt outside the US. When the US realises what it’s lost it’s going to be too late.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#203

Post by xyzsparetimexyz »

erkt wrote: post #179
Danox wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They got a leg up and still the Russians with Sputnik got into space first, on top of splitting Korea and winning in Vietnam and having the nuclear bomb fall into their lap and to top it off they appear to have the Manchurian candidate in the White House.

Take a deep breath.

[flagged]

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#204

Post by kibwen »

xyzelement wrote: post #146
hypfer wrote: post #22

This is a huge success, but it I think also tells us that the EU is further decoupling itself from the US. Slowly but steadily. Which is obviously the right thing to do, but it's interesting that it's not just a hypothetical anymore.

Does it mean that? Europe has had a space agency for a while now. So this story isn't "Europeans finally started to launch for space" but a private European company chose to launch from a continental location. It's funny how we can't be celebrate a European achievement without trying to interpret it into relationship to the US.

> Does it mean that?

When the US government funded SpaceX, it was motivated in no small degree by a desire to not be permanently reliant on a geopolitical wildcard (Russia) for getting astronauts into orbit. Now that the US itself has become a geopolitical wildcard, savvy countries know that they need to seek out alternatives to SpaceX under more stable regimes.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#205

Post by cindyllm »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #198
lkey wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It seems you are misreading my comment and the cold realism in which it is articulated (and which the relevant historical actors in this moment operated under) as some sort of endorsement of the act or an ignorance of the accompanying atrocities. Rest assured I only sought to comment in that manner because I find generally on a forum such as this, leading with a sense of outrage (regardless of how justified) is typic…

[dead]

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#206

Post by zzzeek »

lostlogin wrote: post #202
xyzelement wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it mean that? Europe has had a space agency for a while now. So this story isn't "Europeans finally started to launch for space" but a private European company chose to launch from a continental location. It's funny how we can't be celebrate a European achievement without trying to interpret it into relationship to the US.

> It's funny how we can't be celebrate a European achievement without trying to interpret it into relationship to the US. It really isn’t funny. The US shat the bed and for now the repercussions are mainly being felt outside the US. When the US realises what it’s lost it’s going to be too late.

Oh we (the non idiots here) know full well what we lost. If Europe has a larger and more substantial science / technology community, that will just mean more trips/job offers in EU for me, so go Europe !

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#207

Post by nine_k »

postingawayonhn wrote: post #152
xyzelement wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it mean that? Europe has had a space agency for a while now. So this story isn't "Europeans finally started to launch for space" but a private European company chose to launch from a continental location. It's funny how we can't be celebrate a European achievement without trying to interpret it into relationship to the US.

Yes, they've had a space agency, but the only launchers are expensive legacy vehicles. This launch is a move towards lower cost and more frequent launches, that in the US are provided by SpaceX.

It's not even the US in general, it's SpaceX specifically. Only the US and China have demonstrated reusable rockets, and only SpaceX demonstrated the actual reuse, the cadence and the economy of scale that it brings.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#208

Post by bigyabai »

Danox wrote: post #123
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #103

A good historical nugget is that the Americans got a huge leg up in the space race by importing the Germans who worked on the V-2 program. Germans killed Soviets by the millions. If you were a German of value (like a rocket scientist) you were eager to surrender to the Americans before the Soviets could get their hands on you. If you were the Americans, you distrusted the Soviets already, so it was a win-win. https:/…

They got a leg up and still the Russians with Sputnik got into space first, on top of splitting Korea and winning in Vietnam and having the nuclear bomb fall into their lap and to top it off they appear to have the Manchurian candidate in the White House.

With fairness to the Soviets, the USSR's reputation for rocket artillery was nearly as impressive as Germany's in WWII. The Allies had less experience scaling and deploying the technology, so they had more to gain by taking in the Peenemünde researchers.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#209

Post by atherton94027 »

weinzierl wrote: post #79
atherton94027 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The french always had Ariane??

The Ariane is as much German as it is French. It is considerably Italian too.

This is incorrect, ArianeGroup is mostly french, it's a joint venture between Airbus and Safran.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#210

Post by jpleyden98 »

YZF wrote: post #201
gman83 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not that Europeans havent read Mearsheimer. its that for the best part of three hundred years the whole of Europe has been trying that same realist script until there was nothing left but total ruin across the entire continent. Europeans who created the EU knew about balance of power geopolitics so well, they created this slow bureaucratic mess specifically to stop Germany and France sliding back into the same ol…

I would bet any amount that if you go to a random European city and stop 100 random people on the street you'd be lucky if one person has even heard of Mearsheimer. I think you're also overthinking how the EU got created. I don't think pre-EU Europe was on the brink of violence either. It was more IMO simplistic (but possibly correct, who knows) thinking that it's stronger (economically) as a block. A lot of present…

You're just showing your ignorance and lack of knowledge about the history of the EU.

Whilst the EU in it's current form did not exist until 1993, it's predecessor the European Coal and Steel Community was formed in 1950 with the Schuman Declaration: https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-histor...

The primary goal of this was to prevent another war by joining european economies together economically. It's not 'overthinking it'. It quite literally is the main reason and you can go and read the speeches from the politicians at the time to confirm this.

Heres a direct quote from the declaration itself

> The solidarity in production thus established will make it plain that any war between France and Germany becomes not merely unthinkable, but materially impossible.

The fact that the european powers (with the exception of russia) are largely at peace with each other and haven't had a major war with each other since the second world war is very unusual given european history.

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