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England set to be one of the first countries to eliminate hepatitis C

bbc.com

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Re: England set to be one of the first countries to eliminate hepatitis C

#201

Post by xorcist »

diroussel wrote: post #182
kube-system wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is amplifying the issue, but you're right, Trump is a symptom of the underlying problem. The problem is that internet gave these idiots a platform to mislead people. Back in the early 90s this wasn't much of a problem. Childhood vaccine requirements weren't some hot-button topic then. Most people would just get them when faced with the requirement. Most opposition was isolated to people who were otherwise contrari…

Are you blaming communication technology?

Neither phones, nor email, not even usenet had this impact. Social media did.

The problem is not with the technology but those that control it. (Some would probably say, the fact that any one actor controls it in the first place.)

Our only means of communication in modern society are a few advertising platforms in hands of even fewer owners, and the engineers hired to run it are busy engagementmaxxing.

Re: England set to be one of the first countries to eliminate hepatitis C

#202

Post by ChrisLTD »

its_ethan wrote: post #154
Aurornis wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strangely, anti-vax sentiment is surging in a lot of countries. Canada has higher rates of vaccine rejection than the United States in some categories, as one example. It’s a strange global phenomenon and I don’t think there is one single root cause. MAGA/MAHA definitely jumped on to the anti-vax train as it became popular, but many forget that Trump presided over the rushing of the COVID vaccine into availability an…

I am very prepared to get downvoted for bringing this up - but I'm not convinced that the "anti-vax movement" most people think of is truly to blame (that is, crazy people who think it gives you autism or whatever). At least in my area, there are pockets of (relatively) new immigrants that have MMR vaccination rates at around 30% (that's very low, much lower than the anti-vaxxer population could account for imo), and…

Would you say that the government telling those people that they should be afraid of vaccines will help or hurt in this case?

Re: England set to be one of the first countries to eliminate hepatitis C

#203

Post by tremon »

MoltenMan wrote: post #88
geophile wrote: post #83

[flagged]

I'm not a trump fan, but the antivax train has nothing to do with him. (Evidence: Canada is doing even worse then us when it comes to measles). If we want to fix this problem (we do), the first step is to recognize the actual problem, not to play the blame game on whichever politician you currently don't like!

"has nothing to do with it" is not the same as "is not the cause of". Trump and antivax definitely are related as both are symptoms of the same public strategy that spreads misinformation, polarizes discourse and weaponizes stupidity.

Re: England set to be one of the first countries to eliminate hepatitis C

#204

Post by phillc73 »

gadders wrote: post #168
geophile wrote: post #83

[flagged]

[flagged]

Not sure why the parent was downvoted, because I think it nails the current sentiment.

For some people the COVID vaccine(s) were rushed to market, with limited clinical trials, intended to vaccinate the entire adult population, with limited data as to their immediate effectiveness and with no data about long term effects. You can debate whether the above points are valid or not, but for some people they certainly raised a safety flag.

I completely agree that the vaccine scepticism around the COVID vaccines is now carrying over into other, well tested, well understood and very, very beneficial vaccines.

Re: England set to be one of the first countries to eliminate hepatitis C

#205

Post by r_lee »

chancer131 wrote: post #194
chancer131 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

I mean this is liberal/left heavy, it's to be expected, you can't just rummage in and expect people to be like hm good points you're right! when most of the audience is against you

it's expected

if you could delve into what supports your arguments that'd help more than "trust me instead"

I personally am skeptical of many things, including pharma, but I'm not going to claim that vaccines don't work when historically they have, and I'd have to do a bunch of research to prove an internet argument wrong.

do I think that covid vaccines were/are 100% safe and totally not rushed due to the pandemic? no.

Re: England set to be one of the first countries to eliminate hepatitis C

#206

Post by gadders »

phillc73 wrote: post #204
gadders wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Not sure why the parent was downvoted, because I think it nails the current sentiment. For some people the COVID vaccine(s) were rushed to market, with limited clinical trials, intended to vaccinate the entire adult population, with limited data as to their immediate effectiveness and with no data about long term effects. You can debate whether the above points are valid or not, but for some people they certainly rai…

Yeah. People are lumping all vaccines together in an attempt to boost the credibility of the COVID vaccine. Unfortunately what it is actually doing is ruining the credibility of all the other vaccines that have been around for years and are well understood.

Re: England set to be one of the first countries to eliminate hepatitis C

#207

Post by r_lee »

ChrisLTD wrote: post #202
its_ethan wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very prepared to get downvoted for bringing this up - but I'm not convinced that the "anti-vax movement" most people think of is truly to blame (that is, crazy people who think it gives you autism or whatever). At least in my area, there are pockets of (relatively) new immigrants that have MMR vaccination rates at around 30% (that's very low, much lower than the anti-vaxxer population could account for imo), and…

Would you say that the government telling those people that they should be afraid of vaccines will help or hurt in this case?

I don't think people base their beliefs purely based on what the administration says

the whole rollout and lockdowns, Fauci, etc. were a perfect storm to cause skepticism towards vaccines

Re: England set to be one of the first countries to eliminate hepatitis C

#208

Post by mrguyorama »

simonw wrote: post #150
Aurornis wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pivotal paper that tried to link vaccines to autism came out of the UK and was published in The Lancet. Assuming that the US was the root of the current surge of anti-vax idealism is not supported by the facts.

I don't think the general public were as influenced by a paper in the Lancet as they were by other members of the public (and media) talking about that study.

That paper was followed by a sustained and purposeful PR campaign, by the author, who had an investment in a new vaccine type that only covered one disease, as he was trying to cast doubt on vaccinating multiple things at the same time as "too stressful on the body" or other bullshit.

This also involved, whether he pushed it or it was organic, the tabloid press of the UK.

Eventually this filtered back to the US, despite already being largely debunked and retracted, but that didn't matter to the early 2000s celebrities looking for whatever confirmation bias sources they could.

The histeria started in the UK, slowly crept over the atlantic to the US, and now has filtered back, all while it was based on absolute fraud and lies, the exact criticism all these morons insist applies to real scientists.

The modern anti-vaccine movement was nearly entirely started by a doctor fraudulently publishing fake science to make money. The supporters of course refuse to see that, because it would burst their bubble, so only their enemies can possibly be guilty of it.

Even the 12 or so parents involved in that fraudulent "study" cried foul, as he literally put words in their mouths and made up testimony from them to support his scheme. Actual autistic children continue to suffer from his bullshit, entirely made up illness.

Re: England set to be one of the first countries to eliminate hepatitis C

#209

Post by simoncion »

shevy-java wrote: post #39
lbriner wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elimination doesn't mean there are no incidences of it, it means no new cases diagnosed in England. This is a result of reducing the cases so much that the chance of catching it drops to virtually zero. Drug users have a range of cleaner alternatives today than 10 years ago so is less of an issue but also if very few people have it, the chance of a drug user sharing a needle with someone who has becomes very small in…

Elimination means 0%. If BBC wants to convey something else, they should use other statements. The title insinuates this. > Drug users have a range of The title does not even mention drug users. The title refers to the hepatitis C virus. That virus existed way before drug users did.

> Elimination means 0%.

Not in this context, no. It means the same thing as being cured of Hep C means... there's a little bit still lingering around, but the systems that keep it under control mean that it doesn't cause any problems. The world and one's body are environments that are way too large to get rid of 100% of something without utterly obliterating them.

> That virus existed way before drug users did.

I'm skeptical. Living things have been drug users for approximately forever.

Anyway, a fun fact that I learned when I was getting my Hep C diagnosis and treatment is that the three most common ways to get it are

1) Be an IV drug user who's not extremely careful about their needles

2) Share your toothbrush with someone else

3) Have had a blood transfusion prior to ~1992, when they started screening the blood supply for Hep C

It turns out that -for the sex-havers that aren't into blood play- sex is one of the least effective methods of Hepatitis transmission.

Re: England set to be one of the first countries to eliminate hepatitis C

#210

Post by geophile »

MoltenMan wrote: post #139
geophile wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has a lot to do with him. He doesn't actually have an opinion on any policy issue. For various political reasons, Trump decided to let RFK dictate public health policy according to his extremely delusional ideas. Yes, there was an antivax movement in this country for many years, just as there has been misogyny, racism, and transphobia. Trump has normalized and supercharged all of these moronic and dangerous ideas.…

See my other comments; it is not possible for RFK to have had any effect on this outbreak. If everyone getting measles was 2 or under, it could be possible; they aren't. The reason I bring up Canada is as counterevidence; if it was Trump or RFK'S fault, Canada should be doing just fine. They had twice the cases last year in 1/10 the population. The truth is this is a problem with people believing stupid things, and i…

1) Vaccines are not 100% effective. 2) Herd immunity is a thing.
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