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Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

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Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#201

Post by tiahura »

gib444 wrote: post #169
hunglee2 wrote: post #2

One understated outcome of Trump 2.0 is waking up some sections of the European intelligentsia to the risk of dependency on the United States. Trump 1.0 should've been enough, but instead European leaders were just too thankful for a Biden back-to-normal scenario that they basically took no action allowing the US to further extend its dominance. Better late than never. Incidentally, trying to build EU tech independen…

> basically took no action allowing the US to further extend its dominance. I love this. Do you think everything is in Europe's control? Do you know anything about the US has operated since WW2? Have you noticed the mismatch in economic and military might between the two regions? And what about all the US military bases in Europe? Do you think it's simply a case of asking them to please leave within 1 year, thanks, g…

It’s a mismatch we’ve been asking Europe to do something about for 30+ years. Instead, they decided to turn their countries into third world refugee camps.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#202

Post by tiahura »

usrnm wrote: post #11
Braxton1980 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Trump has 2.5 years left and they may be hoping a Democrat wins

Trump was elected . Twice. It was not a fluke, not a once in a lifetime event, he's a symptom of wider processes happening in the US. The world has changed and the old order is not coming back

Mostly it’s a symptom of Democrats nominating the two most unliked people in politics.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#203

Post by lII1lIlI11ll »

deaux wrote: post #193
lII1lIlI11ll wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that hard to believe. Are you implying that Apple is running their own fiber network providing low-latency connection between Europe and Australia? Or what kind of "good engineering"?

I can vouch for GP's exact experience. Facetime does feel much smoother than other videocalling apps for Aus Europe. Of course they don't run their own fiber network. The good engineering is making it feel smooth and good despite that. At its core, nothing about computing is smooth. Everything is based on making it feel that way, using countless techniques.

What "techniques"? Audio/video over high-latency connection is not a computer game where there all all kinds of latency compensation techniques - several meeting participants start speaking at the same time, realize they do only after RTT, stop, then awkwardly wait for a moment and repeat hoping for no "collision", rinse-repeat. Everyone who often has meetings with participants connecting from different continents knows what I'm talking about. But you can have this in beautiful high-definition "smooth" 4K if bandwidth is high enough, yes.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#204

Post by hunglee2 »

gib444 wrote: post #169
hunglee2 wrote: post #2

One understated outcome of Trump 2.0 is waking up some sections of the European intelligentsia to the risk of dependency on the United States. Trump 1.0 should've been enough, but instead European leaders were just too thankful for a Biden back-to-normal scenario that they basically took no action allowing the US to further extend its dominance. Better late than never. Incidentally, trying to build EU tech independen…

> basically took no action allowing the US to further extend its dominance. I love this. Do you think everything is in Europe's control? Do you know anything about the US has operated since WW2? Have you noticed the mismatch in economic and military might between the two regions? And what about all the US military bases in Europe? Do you think it's simply a case of asking them to please leave within 1 year, thanks, g…

yeah true. Still, the primary problem was lack of consciousness about this state of affairs, especially at leadership level. One thing Trump 2.0 does take off the mask on this. It's a start

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#205

Post by zrn900 »

beloch wrote: post #94

If a politically stable nation with a good international reputation were to guarantee government respect for data privacy for data centres housed on its soil and run by its companies, that nation could become the Swiss bankers of data. Rolling your own "digital sovereignty" is not going to be cheap for most nations, and many other nations simply won't be trusted by anyone, least of all their own citizens. It's a bit…

> It's a bit flabbergasting that U.S. tech companies didn't see this coming years ago and lobby hard for the U.S. to repeal anti-privacy legislation like the CLOUD act

The US big tech has been in bed with the US establishment since eternity.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#206

Post by sam_lowry_ »

Avamander wrote: post #181
EdiX wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soon thanks to Digital ID all your important business will have to go through the devices you trust the least.

There's nothing about a digital ID system that would inherently require the use of a pre-approved OS. Some countries went with SmartCards that you can use on any platform that can communicate with a card reader basically.

Hah, you wish. See how maintainers of a reference implementation resist removing Google dependency here: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/eudi-app-andro...

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#207

Post by graemep »

vrganj wrote: post #123
graemep wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has expanded to incorporate many more countries but is a much smaller fraction of the world's economy than it was in the 70s. Europe is the world's slowest growing region so this will continue.

Youre only counting the core, not the periphery we bound to us through deals I mentioned. Korea, Canada, Latin America, India. They're all bound to us. Europe is just the imperial capital of the largest economic region in the world.

You seriously think that those countries are bound to Europe? That Europe is their imperial capital? Anyone from those countries here who feels that Europe is their imperial capital?

Those countries also have trade deals with each other, and with other trading blocks. The EU us not the top trading partners for any one of them, and, because its low growth, is becoming increasingly less important to all of them.

People seriously think this but it was people voting for Brexit that were suppose remainers claimed hankering for empire.

This sort of claim is pure wishful thinking, and only strengthens my belief that Europeans are in denial.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#208

Post by graemep »

Paradigma11 wrote: post #189
graemep wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter who is president? The US was spying on European leaders before Trump's first term: "According to the investigation, which covered the period from 2012 to 2014, the NSA used Danish information cables to spy on senior officials in Sweden, Norway, France and Germany, including former German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and former German opposition leader Peer Steinbrück." https://www.reuters.c…

Everybody always spies on everybody else. Even it only to check what they are really thinking.

That is all the more reason for governments not to rely on foreign suppliers.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#209

Post by RetroTechie »

mrtksn wrote: post #80
icantevenhold wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of sums up my sentiment. All throughout my adult life the US (for all its apparent faults) was to me a shining example of progress and humanity. It was the best large scale implementation of human rights, laws, and democracy. Sure it was far from perfect but “as good as it gets, for now” Became very disillusioned with that image of the US in the last couple of years. Maybe it’s always been like that - but t…

Yes, US was also the guide star when it comes to dilemmas. When not sure, check out what Americans do and they will probably have it figured it out without the bias that we may have due to historical reasons. I firmly believe that the dominant feeling towards US today isn't anger or hate, its heartbreak and disappointment.

As a kid, I used to regard US culture as a source of inspiration. Be awed by its achievements, innovation & military strength. Have great respect for its founders & various US-based historic figures. Be greatful (to this day!) for the sacrifice US soldiers (among others) brought to help free Europe in WWII.

As I grew older, I'd learn more about bad things US did throughtout history. Downsides of its policies. Some of the burdens it placed on other nations. Shortcuts it took to enhance the American way of life @ the cost of people elsewhere. Examples are just too many. The shining beacon became a grey area. But overall, tended to regard US' influence as a net positive.

These days, it's crystal clear to me why so many people cherish a deep hatred towards the US. Again: reasons are many & complicated. I don't happen to be among them, but understand their reasons.

US has fallen from being a shining example for the world, to a dumb & selfish kid doing damage everywhere. Damage the rest of the world scrambles to route around.

Sadly, this is not the result of external pressures on the US. Nor the (sole) fault of its current leadership. It came from within. It's damage the US is doing to itself, and to others.

This will not improve any time soon, I think. We'll take Lady Liberty's flame on your way out, thank you very much.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#210

Post by RetroTechie »

apexalpha wrote: post #100
Schlagbohrer wrote: post #96

Europe and many other nations will look back on the early 21st century and wonder how they ever thought it was a good idea to willingly give up so much soverignity to foreign powers

Europe was beaten down, broke and simply kaput. Then it was split in a camp dependent on the US and a camp dependent on the USSR. Both the US and USSR spent decades keeping us together but definitely not united. This runs deep in European political culture. Until 2 years ago many Dutch people had more in common and more trust in Americans than . If only because half of them go broke once every generation.

To be fair: the # of wars fought between European nations... many. This goes back way further than WWII or Cold War.

But yes both US and Russia (perhaps China too) might stand to gain from Europe staying divided as it is.

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