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Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

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Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#201

Post by HlessClaudesman »

Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #199
HlessClaudesman wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents need to weigh potential otracization against the cost of giving a smart device, which could be as high as ending their normal childhood development. Personally I think no phones until 16 is a good rule.

16 is steep, at 14 I was going around by bus a lot, having google maps to track when, what and where the bus is stopping would have made an enormous difference (this is a big city, changing route due to delays is possible). I wish I had it. (I had a normal phone, smartphones didn't exist yet)

I was navigating a big city and the surrounding countryside at the age of 12 before the internet was a thing. Apps and phones are not necessary for exploration.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#202

Post by kube-system »

HlessClaudesman wrote: post #200
kube-system wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents need to weigh the potential bad effects of social media against the cost of otracization, which could be as high as ending their normal childhood development. Social development is very critical during school-age years.

Do you think kids are developing socially whilst on their phones?

Most kids today go through their developmental years while using smartphones, yes. Is that quality of development affected by it? Probably also yes. Are children harmed when their parents force them into out-groups among their peers during their developmental years? Unquestionably yes.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#203

Post by kube-system »

HlessClaudesman wrote: post #201
Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

16 is steep, at 14 I was going around by bus a lot, having google maps to track when, what and where the bus is stopping would have made an enormous difference (this is a big city, changing route due to delays is possible). I wish I had it. (I had a normal phone, smartphones didn't exist yet)

I was navigating a big city and the surrounding countryside at the age of 12 before the internet was a thing. Apps and phones are not necessary for exploration.

Your peers when you were 12 probably also didn't use transportation that required a smartphone app.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#204

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

HlessClaudesman wrote: post #201
Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

16 is steep, at 14 I was going around by bus a lot, having google maps to track when, what and where the bus is stopping would have made an enormous difference (this is a big city, changing route due to delays is possible). I wish I had it. (I had a normal phone, smartphones didn't exist yet)

I was navigating a big city and the surrounding countryside at the age of 12 before the internet was a thing. Apps and phones are not necessary for exploration.

I did not say it's necessary, but it's a HUGE improvement to moving with transit. You cannot change at the last minute unless you know all the bus routes, which you can do with a map app.

It makes an enormous difference for transit.

Knowing when the bus is arriving allows you to decide to walk. Not every places has buses that arrive on time. In Rome a bus can be late by 40 minutes, in which case walking is an option, especially if you are young.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#205

Post by jraby3 »

panny wrote: post #159
jraby3 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 7 year old came home crying the other day because every single person in her class has a phone except her. I can't imagine taking it away from my older kids (14,11). They use it to chat with friends and play games with them, do homework together, make plans and share common experiences and videos. It's not as simple as you think. You have no idea how shitty screentime is how much of a cat and mouse game it is. It'…

I'm reminded of a statistic I read. 75% of the time you will spend with your child happens by age 12. I think I would eschew the phones until 13, purely because I'd never get that time back. Once they're adolecents and "too cool" to hang out with parents anymore, then fine, here's your phone, don't kill yourself. Anyway, let's not assume everyone is a parent and ruin the whole online world with rules to "protect the…

That only works if the rest of the parents in your neighborhood also do it. Otherwise your kid won't be in group chats, will miss events.

I live in Israel where kids are given a phone at an extremely young age (partially because of the security situation). Teachers give homework over WhatsApp, schools announce changes to the schedule, etc.

What I'm saying is it's almost not just up to you anymore, it really depends on your circumstances.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#206

Post by HlessClaudesman »

kube-system wrote: post #202
HlessClaudesman wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think kids are developing socially whilst on their phones?

Most kids today go through their developmental years while using smartphones, yes. Is that quality of development affected by it? Probably also yes. Are children harmed when their parents force them into out-groups among their peers during their developmental years? Unquestionably yes.

There are other groups: scouts, football, dance, crafts, etc. Actually doing stuff in the world does not require a phone. Kids learn by doing stuff.

In general around this topic, there is a lot of post hoc rationalisation about choices already made. I've actually got a family member approaching her 30s who has spent the last 2 decades mostly staring at a screen, and has nothing to show for it. So for me the choice is easy, maybe less so for my kids.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#207

Post by BlackFly »

trumpdong wrote: post #70
eks391 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> alternatives where we would identify and just generally regulate the harmful features Good point. The age ban is based on the idea that it is worse for kids (and other exploits) when the big idea is that it is bad for everyone , just moreso for kids. Might as well protect the whole populace when one change of the app design will do that.

Alcohol and cigarettes are bad for you but we've decided that when you turn 18 you have the freedom to ruin your own life. (But not with LSD, for some reason)

We fear that these drugs have developmental impacts but beyond that we also forbid them in restaurants and indoor environments quite generally even for adults. So adult usage is tolerated in their own home or in the outdoor public environment (although some further restrictions apply here).

I am sympathetic to the idea that social media may also have social development impacts separate from their negative social impacts, but my experience in life is that actually people appear to socially degenerate with overexposure. Thus we probably need some regulation analogous to forbidding smoking in restaurants but for social media or limiting gambler's access. But indeed, maybe on top of that we also need bans for minors.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#208

Post by tim-tday »

Age verification is identity verification. It puts everyone at risk.

Here’s a crazy idea. Parents should parent.

I was over for dinner with a family and their 13yr old daughter was complaining about being “grounded forever” because she snuck access to an iPad and signed up for instagram. Instagram is cancer, but. I still don’t think age verification (at the service and government level) is the answer.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#209

Post by larrik »

mwigdahl wrote: post #131
larrik wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on iOS this is basically impossible

Using the built-in Screen Time tools, yes. Qustodio works pretty well though as an add-on product. Not perfect UX, not perfect functionality, but it's the best I've found.

I also use Qustodio, and it has some pretty major rough spots, imo. ScreenTime does as well.

They are both very bad at things like my kids listening to Spotify with the screen off.

Qustodio also has no way to mark an app as "allowed even when they run out of time", or "this app doesn't count towards screen time" (like Spotify, for example).

Then on the PC it gets MUCH worse. I want tracking and blocking on my PCs for my kids' profiles, but if ONE kid runs out of time, ALL the PCs lock everyone out. No message, either. Just bounced to the login screen. Took me like a whole day to figure it out.

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