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Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

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Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#61

Post by musha68k »

mobiuscog wrote: post #38
musha68k wrote: post #16

Another instance of pure power games if you track the political "reasonings" and technological "solutions". It's the same fight with yet another face; we must keep pushing back at the hydra.

The other 'side' is playing the same power games. None of this is truly about the people (even though the sentiment is) - it's the elites vying for power against each other. The internet is not tribal, but humans are. Those seeking to divide are pushing their hardest right now, because they know division will empower them more.

void-kampff pattern matching is failing me here

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#62

Post by twiclo »

big85 wrote: post #48

If you make law-abiding sites like Pornhub hard to access, consumers will move to black markets like the Dark Web, which hosts illegal content. As the article mentions, kids are able to bypass the age verification with ease, so it doesn't even fulfil its stated purpose. We didn't even need age verification, because parental controls have been an option the entire time.

[flagged]

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#63

Post by jraby3 »

knome wrote: post #47
szszrk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more angles on this, not exactly easy. The easiest way to make a kid to do something, is to forbid that very thing. If you are the one cutting it off, while your kid's whole school is very much up to date with latest brainrot content, then you still lose. Your kid is the outcast, while it will be exposed to it anyway, through peers. Meanwhile you are the bad one, making it much harder to have an actual conv…

You're a parent. Be the bad guy if you feel it's right. Wanting the government to levy a society-wide information tracking system because you don't want your child to be upset at you is incredibly selfish.

Your response is incredibly ignorant. You force your kid to be excluded if they don't have a phone. They're disconnected from friends, group chat, and common experiences.

You don't have a problem with age verification for drivers license, or buying a gun, or buying alcohol. Why is social media so different?

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#64

Post by eks391 »

BlackFly wrote: post #46
CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #27

"with nine out of 10 parents saying they are in favour of a ban in response to a government consultation" I wonder why those 90% of parents don't cut their children off from social media right now. They have the power to do it.

Network effects from the other side: If one parent forbids their child then their child becomes a pariah. If no child is able to access social media then they will all interact without it. So yeah, a parent needs their peer's children to also not use social media so that their child is not left out. In general I'm against age based bans. I think there are alternatives where we would identify and just generally regula…

> alternatives where we would identify and just generally regulate the harmful features

Good point. The age ban is based on the idea that it is worse for kids (and other exploits) when the big idea is that it is bad for everyone, just moreso for kids. Might as well protect the whole populace when one change of the app design will do that.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#65

Post by twiclo »

garbawarb wrote: post #12

Obviously? I'm shocked that lawmakers are so okay with giving up their sons' and daughters' personal information.

What law requires that? From what I've seen laws like the one in Utah require any account to be in "child mode" until you can prove you're an adult.

Also these law makers don't want their kids on social media.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#66

Post by fatnoah »

monooso wrote: post #56

Disclaimer: not a parent, as will soon become apparent. Several people have made the argument that individual parents can't simply cut their children off from social media, as said offspring may be ostracised (or simply look at their friends' phones, assuming they still have any). That argument makes sense to me, to an extent. What I don't quite understand is the conclusion that this leaves parents with only two (equ…

> Is that really such a naive suggestion?

IMHO, yes, but that'll depend on the kid, their friends, and all the parents involved. If everyone does line up and agree, than it might be possible, but I think the reality is that kids are remarkably clever and resourceful and will find a way to access what you don't want them to. They'll do it secretly and maybe you'll find out or you won't.

My child is 18, and from about 7th grade onwards, everything important with friends happened in one of the various "group chats" for the various friend circles, sports circles, etc. These are app-based, not SMS/RCS/iMessage based. In our family, we opted for "you can use devices" but with some limits around time of day and work completeness. Phone and apps were open to review by mom and dad on demand.

When reviewing, we weren't looking to micro manage or police the conversations, but to make sure that nothing alarming was happening with respect to addiction to the media, stranger conversations, etc. And yes, random phishing, spam, and inappropriate messages did occasionally come through and provide a great opportunity to talk about how to identify the scams, and how to report the inappropriate messages.

As the kid got older and demonstrated ability to manage things, restrictions loosened, but on-demand access is still allowed with random checks every now and then. Obviously we can't see everything, but it's a balance of protection and safety vs. releasing a fully functional and independent human in the wild that can handle these things on their own.

Again, this is going to depend on the situation, the kids, and the families. My sample size of raising a child is 1, so what worked for us may not work for anyone else.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#67

Post by monooso »

twiclo wrote: post #60
monooso wrote: post #56

Disclaimer: not a parent, as will soon become apparent. Several people have made the argument that individual parents can't simply cut their children off from social media, as said offspring may be ostracised (or simply look at their friends' phones, assuming they still have any). That argument makes sense to me, to an extent. What I don't quite understand is the conclusion that this leaves parents with only two (equ…

Parents will get their kids phones worrying that they're missing out. The more parents do that the more the kids without phones are actually being left out. If the government puts restriction on these things than parents are much less likely to worry. I've heard of parents of children for a certain grade getting together and all signing a pact that the kids won't have phones until a certain point, say 16. It only goe…

> Parents will get their kids phones worrying that they're missing out.

Again, not a parent, but isn't making difficult decisions in the best interests of your child the entire gig?

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#68

Post by CrzyLngPwd »

BlackFly wrote: post #46
CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #27

"with nine out of 10 parents saying they are in favour of a ban in response to a government consultation" I wonder why those 90% of parents don't cut their children off from social media right now. They have the power to do it.

Network effects from the other side: If one parent forbids their child then their child becomes a pariah. If no child is able to access social media then they will all interact without it. So yeah, a parent needs their peer's children to also not use social media so that their child is not left out. In general I'm against age based bans. I think there are alternatives where we would identify and just generally regula…

My 13yr old granddaughter has an iPhone that is locked down by her dad using the apple tool.

It's not difficult.

Her and her friends don't need social media.

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#69

Post by jraby3 »

Hugsbox wrote: post #29
CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #27

"with nine out of 10 parents saying they are in favour of a ban in response to a government consultation" I wonder why those 90% of parents don't cut their children off from social media right now. They have the power to do it.

Yeah, this I will seriously never understand. When I was a kid, if my mother didn't want me doing something then she would make sure I couldn't do it. Is nobody parenting their children anymore? Do they just let them do whatever they want these days? I've got a 2 year old of my own and can't imagine just handing him an iPad and ignoring him all day like I see other parents do. I can't tell if it's laziness, or ignora…

My 7 year old came home crying the other day because every single person in her class has a phone except her.

I can't imagine taking it away from my older kids (14,11). They use it to chat with friends and play games with them, do homework together, make plans and share common experiences and videos.

It's not as simple as you think. You have no idea how shitty screentime is how much of a cat and mouse game it is. It's pretty easy with a two year old, you just wait and see though...

Re: Age verification tech could put children at greater risk, says think tank

#70

Post by trumpdong »

eks391 wrote: post #64
BlackFly wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Network effects from the other side: If one parent forbids their child then their child becomes a pariah. If no child is able to access social media then they will all interact without it. So yeah, a parent needs their peer's children to also not use social media so that their child is not left out. In general I'm against age based bans. I think there are alternatives where we would identify and just generally regula…

> alternatives where we would identify and just generally regulate the harmful features Good point. The age ban is based on the idea that it is worse for kids (and other exploits) when the big idea is that it is bad for everyone , just moreso for kids. Might as well protect the whole populace when one change of the app design will do that.

Alcohol and cigarettes are bad for you but we've decided that when you turn 18 you have the freedom to ruin your own life. (But not with LSD, for some reason)
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