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Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

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Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#201

Post by deaux »

bdangubic wrote: post #95
amunozo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. You cannot even book appointments in a lot of banks today, a thing you could do in the 90s. Like that, a lot of services are unavailable without a smartphone and its non-smartphone equivalent is not available anymore.

Why does this permeate the HN all the time. You can 100% function without a fucking smartphone. My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and just about every other imaginable thing. If there was something he could not do and there were repercussions for it he’d be calling an attorney to rectify the situation. It is crazy to keep reading this over and over on HN, so wei…

It's crazy that you're so insulated inside your own bubble and close-minded not to realize that the degree to which smartphones are required in daily life differ massively across countries, and HN is a global place. The places where your dad would have trouble going to the bank and doing "every other imaginable thing" are real and exist. You're just not in one.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#202

Post by epolanski »

medvidek wrote: post #191
epolanski wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. 1. My bank doesn't allow to go in person without an in-app taken appointment. 2. My nephew can't play football in his team, because the team has an app to book/signal your availability. No other way. 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't. 4. McDonald's will make me pay the scam pricing you get without the app. 5. My doctor gives documentation only and exclusively in di…

1. I don't know any bank that does, but in any case voting with your wallet is always an option. 2., 3., 4. Voting with your wallet once again. 5. That would be illegal in many jurisdictions, some countries even have a centralized systems for doctors to upload documentation (that you access using your ID as an authentication token). 6., 7. Unless the employer provides said smartphone, that would be illegal to require…

Half of the voting with your wallet are blind to the fact that you can't vote anything else.

My village has one football team, not N. There's one burger place, not two.

For the rest, appealing to legality is pointless, I ain't bringing my family doctor to a tribunal over this, this is real life and me being petty for not wanting to use a phone. Being right years from now is beyond pointless.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#203

Post by deaux »

vivekd wrote: post #199
deaux wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refuse to believe that's true. That they were denying Dorothy (92) from going through customs because she couldn't use an app. That's an extraordinary claim. If they weren't denying Dorothy, that means you did not need an app.

It was compulsory during COVID and it became optional later https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArriveCAN

From what I'm reading, non-users weren't and couldn't have actually been denied entry. It wouldn't have held up in court either. They could be made to quarantine.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#204

Post by epolanski »

jodrellblank wrote: post #145
epolanski wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. 1. My bank doesn't allow to go in person without an in-app taken appointment. 2. My nephew can't play football in his team, because the team has an app to book/signal your availability. No other way. 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't. 4. McDonald's will make me pay the scam pricing you get without the app. 5. My doctor gives documentation only and exclusively in di…

(Depending on whether you mean "can't exist without a phone" or "can't exist without an Apple/Google monopoly ecosystem") 3. you don't need an Apple or Google account to scan a QR code and open a web page. 4. Why is it "scam" pricing? You're getting a discount from giving them your information with an app. Like Kindle charging more to remove adverts. Dislikable, scummy not scammy. (i.e. they aren't taking your money…

But the boarding pass you need in app.

Or you're free to queue at 5 am for your 8.30 am free for an hour+at their counter.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#206

Post by jasonvorhe »

gunalx wrote: post #33
johnsea wrote: post #14

This article fails to mention GrapheneOS. The article starts with Murena, Punkt, Volla which are all based on Android. If you do this, then imho you must mention GrapheneOS, the by far better option (updates, privacy, security, organisation). Google Pixel with GrapheneOS is the best non-Google phone... ;-)

As much as I like graphene it is literary running on google hardware (atm) and uses asop. Even if it is a really good option is you want to run degoogled and secure android.

You don't need any Google stuff on it. Isolated Play Services is an option, so is Play Store. It's not installed ootb. I don't get why you'd prefer to run less secure options on hardware that isn't on par with Pixels or iPhones and expect to get a secure OS.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#207

Post by jasonvorhe »

izacus wrote: post #98
em-bee wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are being downvoted because the article considers de-googled versions of android acceptable. and neither are dependent on google in the sense that even if google stopped publishing android source altogether they could continue to develop the versions they already have. that's the whole point of Free Software and Open Source.

Yeah, and that's utter nonsense. Noone is really stepping up to develop Android beyond repackaging it. If Google decides to remove a feature, GrapheneOS and other forks will end up without it too. If they stop publishing security patches, the forks end up insecure too. It's just like all the Chrome "forks" when ManifestV2 died. None of them survived for more than a few versions until maintainers lost interest. Callin…

Isn't Brave still shipping it?

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#208

Post by cromka »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #181
slumberlust wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could it be hyperbole when you give two examples of the increasing pain?

Because these two examples are tiny in comparison with the decrease in surveillance you will get, and the example you set for your fellow men, and just spreading the norm in society that ubiquitous surveillance is wrong and that we can live ethical lives without being slaves and chained to the government and corporations.

You still use the internet. Just avoiding a mobile phone is not a magic pill against surveillance.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#209

Post by nerdsniper »

dandandandan2 wrote: post #171
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #76

The challenge isn't buying it, the challenge is being able to do phone things with it. Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Most things will work but it takes one critical service that doesn't have a viable workaround, and you're forced to buy (and possibly carry) a "mainstream" phone just for that. Banking, government, authentication, postal service and public transit apps are just some of t…

> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone Hyperbole doesn’t help. I’m a 44 year old former software engineer now with a modest social media following (100k per platform). I don’t have a phone. I’ve never had a smart phone, last dumb phone gone in 2015. I have to hassle my bank to let me use email instead of SMS for 2FA, and I hand jot notes for driving directions sometimes. Otherwise, I’m immense…

I mean, I cant rent city bicycles without a phone in a lot of cities or use uber or lyft but okay.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#210

Post by subscribed »

gunalx wrote: post #33
johnsea wrote: post #14

This article fails to mention GrapheneOS. The article starts with Murena, Punkt, Volla which are all based on Android. If you do this, then imho you must mention GrapheneOS, the by far better option (updates, privacy, security, organisation). Google Pixel with GrapheneOS is the best non-Google phone... ;-)

As much as I like graphene it is literary running on google hardware (atm) and uses asop. Even if it is a really good option is you want to run degoogled and secure android.

I mean.... Android is aosp. And if you want to run degoogled GrapheneOS you just don't install Google services. Out of the box it does NOT contain any - but /e/OS ships with the privileged microG, which means that Android Auto or Google Play Store have privileged access to the phone.

So I'm not sure how can you suggest GOS is less "degoogled" while not shipping anything but allowing to install sandboxed / constrained play services, while comparing it to /e/OS which ships with a privileged plug.

Also, if you want to run a secure android, that's not /e/OS either.

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