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EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

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Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#201

Post by itissid »

stingraycharles wrote: post #25
conception wrote: post #19

This is pretty easy to solve. If you present data by algorithm, you are no longer an impartial common carrier and are liable for the content you present. If the user decides you don’t, ala social media 1.0.

This is one of those things that don’t translate to legal reality very well, as then you have to define “what is an algorithm”. Is adding advertisements an algorithm? Is including likes an algorithm? Is automatically starting the next video after a previous one has finished an algorithm? Is infinite scroll an algorithm? Etc

Instead, a regulation could mandate the administration an anonymized unbiased mandatory eval test at the end of every week/bi-week/month just like instruments for psych evaluation (e.g. do you feel your has become worst in the last on . Did you have after watching content on social media?).

The said regulation can then mandate that after calibration and correction the feed pull back by training the algorithm to adjust it in a rapid A/B test.

This is all doable by the companies themselves, but since they wont, the key is to mandate it and publish the aggregate results regularly — like make it part of the quarterly share holder's SEC reporting requirement or something.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#202

Post by tencentshill »

tolerance wrote: post #171
tencentshill wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The algorithm is not personalized. It's the same for every user. No issue there.

But still an algorithm. The difference is that we (at least some of us) place a greater trust in the integrity behind how information surfaces on HN. I think that some parts of it are open source, and the moderators are transparent enough about what isn't public + there is a mix of folk knowledge that explains how HN works under the hood. Depersonalized algorithms or recommender systems aren't inherently better than…

Yes it's still an algorithm. Cable TV programming is another example. Everyone sees the same content. The ads are changed at the local broadcaster level but are not tailored to the individual, and are not harmful in the ways the EU is regulating. If anything, everyone watching the same thing is good for social cohesion. Everyone discusses the latest TV episode the next day at the office.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#203

Post by Analemma_ »

xigoi wrote: post #194
Aurornis wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you present data by algorithm, you are no longer an impartial common carrier and are liable for the content you present Hacker News is a site that presents data by algorithm. Under your definition, Hacker News goes away, too. A more accurate framing would be that they’re going after personalized recommendation algorithms. It’s not obvious that offering a recommendation algorithm would mean that the site is no lo…

> Under your definition, Hacker News goes away, too. It doesn’t have to go away, just switch to chronological sorting.

Have you ever browsed by New and seen the firehose of shit which doesn’t make it to the front page? HN sorted by new is effectively useless and you might as well shut the site down at that point.

“Chronological only” might work for something like Twitter where you’re choosing to follow specific individuals to see their posts, it can’t work for curation sites like HN/Reddit.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#204

Post by somebehemoth »

SirMaster wrote: post #184
wackget wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern-day cigarette is such a perfect metaphor for social media. A cabal of unfathomably wealthy companies spreading their harmful products across the world; making them as addictive as possible while actively burying the research which proves how harmful they are. I truly hope one day we'll look back on social media and smartphone use the same way we regard smoking.

But if you stop using social media, you don't still have a risk of lung cancer in the future. The effects of social media usage are surely reversible by stopping using it and then some retraining of the brain. The effects of years of smoking are not so reversible in terms of what it does to your body.

> The effects of social media usage are surely reversible by stopping using it and then some retraining of the brain

This is a reasonable, but optimistic take. The effects of social media on developing brains will need to be studied to be sure the effects are reversible. Furthermore, how extensive is the damage and how long does it take to reverse? Are older people less likely to recover?

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#205

Post by tmvphil »

xigoi wrote: post #199
tmvphil wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the user selects "sort by algorithm" then I don't see how you've changed anything other than the default. I think it's pretty obvious just changing the default won't work.

Changing the default makes a huge difference because 99% of people don’t change settings.

That's because the default is 99% the way the app is designed to be used. If the default is regulated, then they will just say "sorry the default is boring, click here to bring back the feed" and everyone will just click.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#206

Post by NickC25 »

Just do what China does, how fucking hard is it? They have 4x, almost 5x the population of the US.

STEM or verifiable educational content only. Have a review team and an AI that moderates content. No politics, no stupid dances, no monetization of content, no slop, and only credentialed people can post on certain topics (ie a delivery driver shouldn't make posts on theoretical mathematics).

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#207

Post by enedil »

SirMaster wrote: post #184
wackget wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern-day cigarette is such a perfect metaphor for social media. A cabal of unfathomably wealthy companies spreading their harmful products across the world; making them as addictive as possible while actively burying the research which proves how harmful they are. I truly hope one day we'll look back on social media and smartphone use the same way we regard smoking.

But if you stop using social media, you don't still have a risk of lung cancer in the future. The effects of social media usage are surely reversible by stopping using it and then some retraining of the brain. The effects of years of smoking are not so reversible in terms of what it does to your body.

Why are you so sure that the effects of social media are reversible?

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#208

Post by itissid »

itissid wrote: post #201
stingraycharles wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those things that don’t translate to legal reality very well, as then you have to define “what is an algorithm”. Is adding advertisements an algorithm? Is including likes an algorithm? Is automatically starting the next video after a previous one has finished an algorithm? Is infinite scroll an algorithm? Etc

Instead, a regulation could mandate the administration an anonymized unbiased mandatory eval test at the end of every week/bi-week/month just like instruments for psych evaluation (e.g. do you feel your has become worst in the last on . Did you have after watching content on social media?). The said regulation can then mandate that after calibration and correction the feed pull back by training the algorithm to adjus…

I would say its naive to regulate the algorithm than its effects. The effects are all that matter at the end.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#209

Post by jrflo »

LPisGood wrote: post #168
jrflo wrote: post #118

I heard someone on a podcast call social media algorithms "the modern-day cigarette" and that really resonated with me. These companies know their product is addictive and bad for users, but they keep pushing it anyways. Like cigarettes, it's bad for everyone, not just kids. I made an algorithm blocker for Safari because of that and it's actually crazy how much more pleasant social media is if you don't have recommen…

This is still a recommendation algorithm, just less enjoyable/addicting one. Any process by which you decide what to show to a user is an algorithm .

I see what you're saying, I should have been more specific. I more so mean recommendation algorithms that are artificially created by platforms to drive more traffic. I think the HN method of user votes without manipulation by the platform is better but not ideal, the best method is 100% user curated content (i.e. following specific accounts on instagram/twitter, RSS feeds, etc), which I would argue is not really a recommendation algorithm. I think that people don't realize how much the content they see influences your thoughts, and how much that content is chosen by profitability over anything else.

Re: EU to crack down on TikTok, Instagram's 'addictive design' targeting kids

#210

Post by vrganj »

mrits wrote: post #133
jrflo wrote: post #118

I heard someone on a podcast call social media algorithms "the modern-day cigarette" and that really resonated with me. These companies know their product is addictive and bad for users, but they keep pushing it anyways. Like cigarettes, it's bad for everyone, not just kids. I made an algorithm blocker for Safari because of that and it's actually crazy how much more pleasant social media is if you don't have recommen…

[flagged]

Please share the definition of fascism you used to come to this conclusion.
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