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Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

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Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#201

Post by nullbyte »

osiris970 wrote: post #199
UncleOxidant wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely true. Google released Gemma 4 models recently. Allen AI releases open Olmo models. However, you're right that the Chinese open models seem to be much better than others - Qwen 3.* models especially are punching above their weights.

The three American labs don't release big open source models. Except gpt-oss, i guess. It's an absolute shame how far the us has fallen in this space.

Anthropic doesn't, but Google and OAI both release open source models. Just not 1T parameter ones.

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#202

Post by scosman »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #68
simonw wrote: post #53

Accessed via OpenRouter, this one decided to wrap the SVG pelican in HTML with controls for the animation speed: https://gisthost.github.io/?ecaad98efe0f747e27bc0e0ebc669e94... Transcript and HTML here: https://gist.github.com/simonw/ecaad98efe0f747e27bc0e0ebc669...

At this point drawing these Pelicans must be in the training data sets.

not if I can help it!

https://github.com/scosman/pelicans_riding_bicycles

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#203

Post by quesera »

cedws wrote: post #129
game_the0ry wrote: post #27

There is some humor in the fact that china (of all countries) is pioneering possibly the world's most important tech via open source, while we (US) are doing the exact opposite.

I wonder if there's a strategy behind all of this on China's side. I know the CCP uses a direct hand in many affairs in China, but is there an actual coordinated effort to compete with, or sabotage the West?

All China has to do here is stay in the game and wait patiently while the US and EU press pause on data centers. See also: solar panels.

We're making this way too easy. The rationale and logic are reasonable, but ultimately irrelevant.

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#204

Post by osiris970 »

nullbyte wrote: post #201
osiris970 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The three American labs don't release big open source models. Except gpt-oss, i guess. It's an absolute shame how far the us has fallen in this space.

Anthropic doesn't, but Google and OAI both release open source models. Just not 1T parameter ones.

Exactly, they release cool consumer stuff, but they aren't releasing anything close to the performance of the best open weight Chinese models. They basically compete in the "fun running at home doing basic stuff" scene. (Except OSs 120 by openai but it's been ages since then)

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#205

Post by gpm »

ninjahawk1 wrote: post #198

I often wonder if in the future, the same way early computers used to take up an entire room but now fit in your pocket, if in the future the equivalent of a data center will be a single physical device like a phone nowadays. And if that’s the case, would it happen much quicker since technology has been speeding up year by year?

> And if that’s the case, would it happen much quicker since technology has been speeding up year by year?

I wouldn't expect this.

Historically we've had a roughly exponential rate of shrinkage. If we keep that same exponential going, we should expect the amount of time to shrink "room full of compute" to "pocket full of compute" to be equal.

And recently we've fallen behind that exponential rate of shrinkage. And this is rather expected because exponentials are basically never sustainable rates of growth.

I still expect that technological progress is getting faster year by year, and that we're still shrinking compute, but that's not necessarily enough for the next shrinking to take less time than when we had exponential progress on shrinking.

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#206

Post by otterley »

pheggs wrote: post #187
otterley wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one-child policy died a long time ago. Also, the accumulation of wealth by connected politicians and businesspeople flies in the face of what communism is supposed to stand for. There is a reason real estate values in popular cities has skyrocketed, and it’s not due to the locals getting wealthier. It’s where Chinese and other oligarchs put their ill-gotten wealth (well, besides Bitcoin).

> The one-child policy died a long time ago. true, but as far as I understand it did because birth rates got too low. so they replaced it with a two-child policy and later with a three-child policy > Also, the accumulation of wealth by connected politicians and businesspeople flies in the face of what communism is supposed to stand for. Yeah, I am sure there's a lot of cases for that. But as far as I know the amount…

> I don't see how that means that they as a country moved away from the goal, it just means there's issues

They're further from Communism than they've ever been since the PRC was founded. The gap between rich and poor is growing there, not shrinking.

> A google search for real estate prices in china reveal a lot of news articles how they are going down though.

They're investing outside China (Vancouver, Toronto, NYC, London, Sydney, Melbourne, etc.) because their assets are safer there (these countries all have strong property protection laws). Like Bitcoin, freedom of capital flows may be restricted, but the wealthy seem to be evading these restrictions with impunity.

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#207

Post by deepsquirrelnet »

XCSme wrote: post #130

In my tests[0] it does only slightly better than Kimi K2.5. Kimi K2.6 seems to struggle most with puzzle/domain-specific and trick-style exactness tasks, where it shows frequent instruction misses and wrong-answer failures. It is probably a great coding model, but a bit less intelligent overall than SOTAs [0]: https://aibenchy.com/compare/moonshotai-kimi-k2-6-medium/moo...

I tried it on openrouter and set max tokens to 8192, and every response is truncated, even in non-thinking mode. Maybe there's an issue with the deployment, but in your link also shows it generates tons of output tokens.

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#208

Post by xigoi »

2ndorderthought wrote: post #172
otterley wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide a concrete example of a US built model that completely refuses to discuss a scientific or political view? Show us the receipt.

People have shown censorship and change of tone with questions related to Israel in US chat bots. For the record, none of this bothers me. Will I ever discuss with an LLM Tianeman square? Nope. How about Israel? Nope. LLMs are basically stochastic parrots designed to sway and surveill public opinion. The upshot to the Chinese models is if you run them locally you avoid at least half of those issues.

First they came for people asking about Tiananmen Square

And I did not speak out

Because I was not asking about Tiananmen Square

Then they came for people asking about Israel

And I did not speak out

Because I was not asking about Israel

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#209

Post by serial_dev »

ffsm8 wrote: post #79
FlyingSnake wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point drawing these Pelicans must be in the training data sets.

Clearly not. I mean the prompt was succinct and clear, as always - and it still decided to hallucinate multiple features (animation + controls) beyond the prompt. It'd also like to point out that to date no drawing was actually good from an actual quality perspective (as in comparative to what a decent designer would throw together) Theyre always only "good" from the perspective of it being a one shot low effort prom…

What does good even mean… I have no idea what a good “pelican on a bike” should look like. It’s a fun prompt because there is no good answers… at least so I thought.

Re: Kimi K2.6: Advancing open-source coding

#210

Post by throwaw12 »

DonsDiscountGas wrote: post #192
rockinghigh wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any protections from industrial espionage when using Anthropic, Cursor, Gemini, or OpenAI?

There are legal protections, and those companies have more to lose by breaking those laws than following them. Same probably not true for Chinese companies.

Legal protection, only if you're a billionaire and US citizen, for everyone else there is no protection.

Does US actually follow laws? They literally kidnapped head of another state and bombed another state and you are expecting legal protection from them?

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