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Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

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Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#201

Post by slicktux »

fred_is_fred wrote: post #165
alexpotato wrote: post #164

Many years ago, back when companies could ask for your previous compensation [0], a hiring manager once said to me "don't ever lie about your past compensation". I wasn't sure how they could figure this out at the time until someone later pointed out that many corporations do a credit history check on you as part of the background check. This gives them access to past compensation. The information asymmetry here is,…

I don’t recall ever seeing a salary in my credit report. Certainly when applying for credit cards you are asked but generally they have you include all sources of income including bonus, passive income, and alimony. There are data sources for this info but I don’t think it’s technically a credit report.

Equifax’s The Work Number buys salary data from employers and they use it for income verification when applying for loans and rentals. You’d be surprised how much data is out there; and it was all sold by entities you ‘trust’. One example being the DMV

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#202

Post by Archonical »

ozgrakkurt wrote: post #198

This is a very complex problem as far as I can understand. You will be in trouble if that person left their last job because they were unhappy about pay or if the value you are giving is lower than some other company is willing to pay. They will leave pretty soon in both cases. Or even worse, they might be in a hurry to find a job for some reason, then they will accept but see the job as temporary. Would be interesti…

Seeing what your neighbors are paying for rent is an amazing idea. I know there's quite a disparity in buildings. I imagine landlords will be squeezed from both sides this way - they wouldn't want the website to show how well a given tenant negotiated, so they may negotiate harder.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#204

Post by joquarky »

YokoZar wrote: post #82
bjt12345 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about this is that there still exist clauses in employment contracts requiring pay secrecy by employees. So, theoretically some employees have a requirement upon them to fill this in.

Those requirements are all facially illegal and unenforceable though. In the US you have federally protected labor rights that you cannot contract out of. The right to discuss pay and working conditions with other workers and the public is one of them.

Yeah, and have you seen what lawyers want for a retainer these days?

You have to be rich to defend your rights now.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#205

Post by alexjplant »

anal_reactor wrote: post #92
Snild wrote: post #77

What a hassle! Here in Sweden, your tax filings are public information; companies can just ask the government what you made last year. I have no idea if they actually do, though, and the data will be somewhat obfuscated if you have extra income on the side.

I earn like €100k per year. Not a huge salary, but definitely above average. My family lives in Eastern Europe. Once I was hanging out with my cousin and his friends, all of these people had minimum-wage jobs. Not really my type of social circle, but I have no issues being cool for an evening. Then suddenly my cousin drinks one too many and starts blabbering about how "fucking rich" I am and all eyes turn to me becau…

Class warfare is a chart-topping hit in the US too. I've been on the receiving end of this rhetoric a few times in social situations but it's always been by college-educated people who get their politics from specific corners of the internet. They view those below them as ignorant, culturally-regressive boors and those above them as malicious hyper-capitalistic villains. That they've never dropped a fry basket or mopped a floor in their lives is of no consequence - they still find it appropriate to call people "tech bros" or, astoundingly enough, tell them that they "don't deserve to make as much as [they] do" because they view others' finances as an affront. It's personal dissatisfaction and consumerist impotence manifested as jealousy, nothing more, nothing less.

Interestingly enough I can't recall a single instance of a working-class person acting like this in a similar situation. A friendly ribbing and wise crack here and there, sure, but never as seething as somebody who feels like they should be making more than they do because they went to school for this, damnit!

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#206

Post by dfxm12 »

alexpotato wrote: post #164

Many years ago, back when companies could ask for your previous compensation [0], a hiring manager once said to me "don't ever lie about your past compensation". I wasn't sure how they could figure this out at the time until someone later pointed out that many corporations do a credit history check on you as part of the background check. This gives them access to past compensation. The information asymmetry here is,…

The information asymmetry here is ... pretty bonkers

This is why you shouldn't trust anyone who sells you on the idea that the ability to negotiate your own deals against large corporations is a feature and not a bug.

The information asymmetry, plus the difference in legal fire power & wherewithal to withstand a drawn out negotiation, will always put you at a disadvantage.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#207

Post by bitexploder »

PenguinCoder wrote: post #188
bitexploder wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loan applications. Credit cards. They all ask for your income. I always put 1,000,000. Never been denied a loan.

Mortgage loans and car loans in America also ask for your W-2 or proof of that said income. Can't prove it, they won't let you use your claimed income as basis for loan approvals.

I never had to supply a W-2 for a vehicle loan. Just my SSN. I almost always get unsecured loans too. They just dump money into your bank account and say "please buy a car with this" and you keep the title. For a mortgage you do have to validate your income. The work around is to just buy your house in cash, I guess (sigh). So I guess mortgage loans leave you open there, but those happen less frequently and may not be good map of income level on a shorter period.

Once in a while they want to see a bank statement or two showing actually paycheck deposits, but I only ever saw that on a mortgage. Once for the car loan they asked to see a balance or two via bank statement. So I showed them a bank account sitting around the $$ for the vehicle loan.

I tend to just avoid loans if at all possible now though.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#208

Post by kackerlacker »

matwood wrote: post #174
kackerlacker wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spend some time going through what programmers wrote over the past years and many of them were rewarded for getting things done quickly with no complaints.. The more diligent ones probably didn't last since they got things done correctly which takes a lot more time and thought.

It's why I said quickly and correctly. I think it's a cop out to say someone was slow because they were building it correctly. Famously, the old space shuttle software was developed very slowly because it had to be 100% correct at all times. Most software does not need that level of correctness. Part of a SE's job is to understand that.

I pay a lot of attention when someone claims to have solved a problem I suspect to be NP-hard. There are a lot of possible explanations, for example they may have an incorrect measurement function or they may have chosen a simpler related problem that isn't really NP-hard, or both.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#209

Post by joquarky »

matwood wrote: post #174
kackerlacker wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spend some time going through what programmers wrote over the past years and many of them were rewarded for getting things done quickly with no complaints.. The more diligent ones probably didn't last since they got things done correctly which takes a lot more time and thought.

It's why I said quickly and correctly. I think it's a cop out to say someone was slow because they were building it correctly. Famously, the old space shuttle software was developed very slowly because it had to be 100% correct at all times. Most software does not need that level of correctness. Part of a SE's job is to understand that.

Fast, quality, cheap.

Pick two.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#210

Post by Lihh27 »

putlake wrote: post #52
anonymars wrote: post #2

One (more) thing to opt out of: Freeze Your Data - The Work Number https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze As I understand it, payroll whores your salary out to Equifax*, who then pimps it to others * Yeah, that one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Equifax_data_breach

Thank you for the link. I tried to opt out. They sent me this email: Equifax Workforce Solutions (provider of The Work Number) has received your employee request communication, but additional information described below is required to fulfill this request. We will be following up with a secure email to obtain the below requested documents: Proof of Identity: Provide a copy of one of the following (must include curren…

lol, collection is frictionless but opting out is full KYC. tells you exactly what the system is optimized for.

mailing passport scans to the guys who left Struts unpatched for 147M SSNs. what could go wrong.

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