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An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

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Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#201

Post by matheusmoreira »

jscd wrote: post #169
superxpro12 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about as much as you can hope for tbh. More than a fair compromise. Society has become quite 'entitled' to 'free' things. As popular as they are, torrents and free streams and emulation and clones of games in an open source lib are all stealing something. I know thats an unpopular thing to say but it a fact. Now, those rights violations viewed in a larger context may change one's opinion on the whole, and I'm…

First, I agree it's cool that Atari, with all its ability to completely screw small projects over, didn't do that in this case. But, at the same time, I find it interesting that "emulations and clones" are considered entitlement (in a derogatory sense), but copyright protection is not. Before 1976 in the US, the _maximum_ copyright term was 56 years, and that would require filing for an extension from the default of…

There is in fact legal precedent showing that it is not entitlement.

Sony Computer Entertainment v. Connectix Corp.

> The object code of a program may be copyrighted as expression, 17 U.S.C. § 102(a), but it also contains ideas and performs functions that are not entitled to copyright protection. See 17 U.S.C. § 102(b).

These corporations have actually gone to court over this and lost. It's just that they technically won by bankrupting their opponents via legal costs.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#202

Post by benoau »

limagnolia wrote: post #174
benoau wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is copyright won't expire on the 1995 game until some time next century, while a French company that acquired Atari's name and copyrights 20 years ago is now asserting their exclusive rights over the IP.

Does OpenTTD contain any Atari IP? I thought it was completely re-written, and did not include any of the original game assets?

I don't think so but simply asserting their rights is complicated and expensive.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#203

Post by adolph »

imp0cat wrote: post #83
iso1631 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember how I first heard about slashdot, but I know I discovered debian and enlightenment through it, and I would assume I discovered openttd through it. Perhaps some comment on a forum or usenet somwhere. Or perhaps on a compuserve group. Or maybe someone else at school.

And what did you discover on hn? Let me show you https://www.oldunreal.com/ ;)

I'm glad to have opend that link. Brought back memories.

head-shot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKgyH9k1CSM

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#204

Post by dang »

2postsperday wrote: post #197
dang wrote: post #157

Recent and related. Others? Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47381746 - March 2026 (131 comments)

I don't really get why you put 'Others?' What kind of question is 'Others?' is doesn't even make any sense. It just pisses me off.

I'll happily explain it if you'll agree to stop making accounts to break HN's rules with.

(You're welcome here personally. We just want you to respect the intended use of the site.)

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#205

Post by gmueckl »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #127
gmueckl wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But OpenTTD is explicitly a faithful copy of the original. It replicates the original product in appearance and behavior and is open about it. If you were to dig into source code history, mailing list archives, chat logs etc. I'm certain that you could find a lot of evidence to support this position.

"Behavior" isn't copyrightable; it explicitly isn't, in fact. To what extent did they copy "appearance" other than supporting the use of the original assets? It is certainly possible that they didn't scrupulously maintain clean hands, but I wouldn't automatically assume that.

Show a set of random persons gameplay video clips from TTD and OpenTTD in its default settings and ask them which one of the two games they are watching. They'll be struggling.

It is about the entirety of the product, not its parts.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#206

Post by Scaevolus »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #200
superxpro12 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about as much as you can hope for tbh. More than a fair compromise. Society has become quite 'entitled' to 'free' things. As popular as they are, torrents and free streams and emulation and clones of games in an open source lib are all stealing something. I know thats an unpopular thing to say but it a fact. Now, those rights violations viewed in a larger context may change one's opinion on the whole, and I'm…

> clones of games in an open source lib are all stealing something It's not illegal to create a compatible game engine. The functional ideas inside the games are not protected by copyright. So long as games are clean room reverse engineered there should be no problem. Actually, even if the reverse engineering was not clean room, it might not be a problem. Sony Computer Entertainment v. Connectix Corp. > The object co…

That's a narrow fair use exception. Many of these open game engines are effectively 1:1 decompilations of the original games, and it would be shocking if they were not effectively copyrighted the same as the original.

I don't think this has been tested in court, but the recent flood of Nintendo game decompilations is likely to change that.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#207

Post by Nathanba »

dryarzeg wrote: post #48
lstodd wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open internet is dead only to those that don't take the effort to discover. Otherwise it's still as open as it always was. Since there was an internet to speak of, there always were and still are vast amounts of people unaware of stuff that exists, limited by no "platforms" but only by their own lack of desire.

That is true to some extent. However, let me ask you one simple question: how would you try to search for something if you are not aware of it's existence? In other words, how people that are not aware of existence of open-source projects (such as OpenTTD) are supposed to discover them if they're not searching for them on purpose (which is impossible given that they have no clue about their existence)? Of course ther…

there are more platforms for searching for games: youtube, google, chatgpt... it's not so dire that if steam bans you then there is no way to find a game

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#208

Post by ikiris »

20k wrote: post #115
Closi wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also even if it is a ground up rewrite, the look and feel still matters. Try creating a 1:1 dupe of a Hermes bag or a Rolex and see how their legal team reacts (even if you call it an OpenBirk)

Clean room reimplementations of software projects have been tested in court and are legally fine

Software projects that do things like edit spreadsheets, transform data, do calculations, yes.

Software projects that are themselves a type of art that is itself copyrighted, lol no.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#209

Post by II2II »

superxpro12 wrote: post #106
aeturnum wrote: post #70

I don't have much to add except to say that I think this is a stand-out example of how companies and preservationists should work together and not against each other. The childish folks who are upset about this aren't familiar with the realties of either open source games perseveration nor the realities of being an IP holder. This is as close as we have gotten to the Good Place. I wish Atari luck on the re-release an…

This is about as much as you can hope for tbh. More than a fair compromise. Society has become quite 'entitled' to 'free' things. As popular as they are, torrents and free streams and emulation and clones of games in an open source lib are all stealing something. I know thats an unpopular thing to say but it a fact. Now, those rights violations viewed in a larger context may change one's opinion on the whole, and I'm…

> Society has become quite 'entitled' to 'free' things. As popular as they are, torrents and free streams and emulation and clones of games in an open source lib are all stealing something. I know thats an unpopular thing to say but it a fact.

Emulators and game engine clones may encourage "stealing", but they are also unique creations. The people who develop said software are typically careful about keeping their software separate from copyrighted materials. In the case of OpenTTD, they did so by creating their own graphics and sound assets to accompany the game engine.

If you are claiming that creating an independent clone of the game engine is stealing, you are entitled to your own opinion. But do understand that it is an opinion and not a fact.

I would also ask you to consider the consequences if that opinion were codified into law. It would make all forms of progress (e.g. literary and technical) nearly impossible since nearly all ideas are derivative. To give an example: the computing landscape would be very different. IBM compatibles would not have been a thing, leaving the market either fragmented or consolidated in the hands of a single company. Oh sure, there were companies that did steal by producing verbatim copies of the IBM PC ROM or the mainboard layout ... but we are talking about a reimplementation in the case of IBM compatibles and OpenTTD, not copies.

Come to think of it, the entire computer industry would have been set back by decades with an excessively strong IP regime. No one seriously classifies the ABC as the first computer, yet the courts used it to strike down patents on early computers. In the early days, IBM played games with IP licensing to try to restrict their competition, something the courts shot down. AT&T didn't give away Unix, nor did they license patents on transistors out of the goodness of their heart. They did so because regulators and the courts recognized that IP could be used to stifle competition (and, by extension, it would have inhibited progress). So I doubt that the courts would agree on emulation or game engine clones being stealing either.

Re: An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

#210

Post by Aeolun »

superxpro12 wrote: post #106
aeturnum wrote: post #70

I don't have much to add except to say that I think this is a stand-out example of how companies and preservationists should work together and not against each other. The childish folks who are upset about this aren't familiar with the realties of either open source games perseveration nor the realities of being an IP holder. This is as close as we have gotten to the Good Place. I wish Atari luck on the re-release an…

This is about as much as you can hope for tbh. More than a fair compromise. Society has become quite 'entitled' to 'free' things. As popular as they are, torrents and free streams and emulation and clones of games in an open source lib are all stealing something. I know thats an unpopular thing to say but it a fact. Now, those rights violations viewed in a larger context may change one's opinion on the whole, and I'm…

Atari could have done nothing but re-release transport tycoon and have it stand on its own merits. This is more like they’re leeching off of an IP they’ve more or less not paid any attention to for 20 years.
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