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$30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

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Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#201

Post by tremon »

dataflow wrote: post #179
honr wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to school in a poor country, and live in the US. The education budget was very low when / where I grew up, and it is pretty hefty where my kids go to school. I occasionally visit their school and volunteer to help. That has given me a good frame for comparison. The quality of education my kids are getting is pure trash compared to what I receieved. The problem is not the budget. It is the lack of real teachers…

> The problem is not the budget. It is the lack of real teachers, as well as a perpetually experimental curriculum. Taking this at face value: how are you teasing apart "lack of real teachers" from the budget? You don't think you'd get real teachers if there was a higher budget to pay them well? > The quality of education my kids are getting is pure trash compared to what I received. How are you doing this comparison…

> You don't think you'd get real teachers if there was a higher budget to pay them well?

Budget goes beyond teacher salary. It's also for giving teachers the tools they need, giving students the support they need, and schools the building maintenance that it needs. Good teachers can't teach and good children can't learn if they don't have the material, nor can they function well if their primary needs aren't met (well-fed, healthy, comfortable).

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#202

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

nativeit wrote: post #138
MichaelRo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, maybe it differs by country/location but my perception is that school was never capable to educate beyond some basic mediocrity level. Mostly it's an institution imposed by the state to process the children while parents are working. And the way to actually teach your kids something never really changed since the times of the elite few versus the mass of peasants: private tutoring. Now it's true that with ba…

We could pay teachers even half of the median salary for HN users, and then see if outcomes improve?

And when the outcomes don't improve because money isn't magical, we could double the salaries again! And again!

Seriously, how do you think that will work? Are you suggesting that the teachers could improve outcomes now, but are holding out as some sort of negotiation leverage? Or that there's some secret corps of millions of super-teachers who could educate the nation's children, but who would rather be network technicians and underwater welders because they need that half-median software income?

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#203

Post by NateEag »

snayan wrote: post #8
selectively wrote: post #2

Unrelated to the laptops. Also, please don't link low quality sources (Yahoo) on HN.

laptops are to cognitive capabilities as syringes are to heroin overdoses. It's just one of the many delivery mechanisms for brainrot in the 21st century.

There are two you can take with you into a classroom:

* laptop

* smartphone

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#204

Post by bubblewand »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #184
bubblewand wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you have stats on that? It seems like an outlier No stats, but it’s extremely real. I know lots of teachers. Parents who flip shit if their kids can’t answer their texts while in class are common. Parents who call their kids in class just to chat are less common, but not as one-in-a-million as you’d think. The attitude you (I’m assuming) and I were raised with, when it comes to school, is less universal than you pe…

OK so in fact parents who want their kids to be able to communicate with them as needed, not parents who want their kids to be able to play video games when so desiring? Of course the ability to do the first gives the ability to do the second, but I think we can agree that they don't as a general rule want their kids to play video games. Again, outliers always exist. Now as to why parents want their kids to answer wh…

This behavior is present in plenty of families that don’t have the kinds of pressure on them that you’re describing. It’s not really connected to that (and needing to reach your kid instantly at 11:00AM on a Tuesday isn’t that common a thing to fall out of families being under most sorts of pressure)

I’m telling you, lots of parents just have very different attitudes toward school than one might expect (than I expected, certainly!). The phone stuff is just one manifestation of this.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#205

Post by TimorousBestie »

Aurornis wrote: post #162
TimorousBestie wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teachers’ unions are pretty inconsequential in much of the United States. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/states-with... Also, https://teacherquality.nctq.org/contract-database/collective...

I don’t know how you came to that conclusion when the most populous coastal states were almost saturated at 100% and very few states came in under 40% in your map. Teachers unions are highly influential.

> Teachers unions are highly influential.

In popular imagination, perhaps. It’s not the sixties anymore.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#206

Post by BobaFloutist »

mlrtime wrote: post #186
dataflow wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is not the budget. It is the lack of real teachers, as well as a perpetually experimental curriculum. Taking this at face value: how are you teasing apart "lack of real teachers" from the budget? You don't think you'd get real teachers if there was a higher budget to pay them well? > The quality of education my kids are getting is pure trash compared to what I received. How are you doing this comparison…

>You don't think you'd get real teachers if there was a higher budget to pay them well? No, this has been proven many times that money is not a leading factor: Just one : https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED418160 The only clear indication of student performance is parent participation and involvement.

Which is often downstream of zip code.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#208

Post by ch4s3 »

CJefferson wrote: post #132
iambateman wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be better policy, in your opinion?

Having taught in schools for years? Treat companies that make addictive products the same way we treat drugs, alcohol and tobacco. Kids want them, particularly teenagers. We aren't perfect at stopping their access. But we can make a best attempt. It would be hard, and it would be 'anti-capitalism', but, I think we have done real long term damage to a generation, and I think in 20 years, like Tobacco, it I'll turn out…

It's not anti-capitalism to not spend public money on nonsense that doesn't further the goals of education, no is it anti-capitalism to control the learning environment in schools. What we have is a collective action problem.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#210

Post by maerF0x0 »

npunt wrote: post #93
maerF0x0 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also we do not know if those kids are better at skills that are more relevant today -- coding, social media marketing, deciding between health insurance and bread.

Eh, disagree. If kids can't read, write, or do math, they won't be able to adapt to whatever is relevant in their adult lives. These are the foundations of every other skill, and schools teach these and are assessed by them. And if they don't need to read, write, or do math in their adult lives, it's likely something has gone horribly wrong for the human race and the only way out is to learn to read, write, and do ma…

I haven't dug into the gritty details of the article and the testing, but it's easily conceivable that "read" means Shakespeare, "Write" means fiction, and math means ... well actually pretty much all math is important :lol:

As a marginal choice I'd rather every kid know how to write a good opinion piece on current events, or a technical document closer to RFCs, than writing some fiction.

Of course, even better if we fund and train them to do both.

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