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If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

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Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#201

Post by jh3 »

rohamg wrote: post #181
wakoumel wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot stop your thoughts, it's like trying to capture the wind by opening your jacket. The point of meditation that most miss is that it is an experiment rather than a quiet place you're trying to reach. You discover what your emotions are, what you think about, etc. There is no goal other than observation of your mind and to consistently bring your attention back to your breath. The reason you sit and don't mov…

You donated to the westboro church?

He says he uses that as motivation to keep his routine alive.

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#202

Post by kamaal »

rsaarelm wrote: post #191
prawks wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one were looking to get into Meditation, what is a good way of going about it? Preferably a DIY way if possible, but if a class is really the way to go that's okay. When you say years of sincere effort, are you talking devoting a full-time job's worth of time, or just keeping a routine? I've been interested in meditation for a while, but it seems whenever I try and dig around I get completely lost in literature an…

Here's one interesting short guide: http://lesswrong.com/lw/5jj/meditation_insight_and_rationali...

After reading this I don't why would anyone ever want to meditate, there are no benefits mentioned at all and getting it wrong means life long misery.

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#203

Post by specialist »

up_and_up wrote: post #127

In my opinion, Meditation and Mindfullness are not the same thing. Meditation is a state, where the mind is completely silent, the breath slows waaaay down, the heartbeat slows waaaay down. Slowly ever so slowly, some bliss starts to bubble up from within. It is the climax of one pointed attention. Few people who say they "meditate" are reaching that point since it requires years of sincere effort. In Yoga, meditatio…

> Meditation is a state, where the mind is completely silent

That wasn't my experience. I tried very hard to attain that "no thought" state. At best, I was able to let my thoughts flow without holding on to them.

I concluded that silent mind thing is an analogy. The opposite of "don't think of a pink elephant" causes you to think of a pink elephant. When you have "no thought" you just let the thought come and go without trying to process (consider, internalize, whatever) it.

But I haven't compared notes with others, gurus, whomever. YMMV.

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#205

Post by up_and_up »

specialist wrote: post #203
up_and_up wrote: post #127

In my opinion, Meditation and Mindfullness are not the same thing. Meditation is a state, where the mind is completely silent, the breath slows waaaay down, the heartbeat slows waaaay down. Slowly ever so slowly, some bliss starts to bubble up from within. It is the climax of one pointed attention. Few people who say they "meditate" are reaching that point since it requires years of sincere effort. In Yoga, meditatio…

> Meditation is a state, where the mind is completely silent That wasn't my experience. I tried very hard to attain that "no thought" state. At best, I was able to let my thoughts flow without holding on to them. I concluded that silent mind thing is an analogy. The opposite of "don't think of a pink elephant" causes you to think of a pink elephant. When you have "no thought" you just let the thought come and go with…

"I concluded that silent mind thing is an analogy"

Thanks for the comment, I can definitely concur that stopping the mind is not easy.

When I started running, I would have told you that for me, running a 5 minute mile was probably impossible. After training a bit, I was able to achieve it consistently. But a key thing to keep in mind, is that I had a coach and other teammates to train with. This helped me believe I could reach goal and gave me the tools to do so.

I think you can probably get the analogy here.

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#206

Post by up_and_up »

zupreme wrote: post #178
up_and_up wrote: post #127

In my opinion, Meditation and Mindfullness are not the same thing. Meditation is a state, where the mind is completely silent, the breath slows waaaay down, the heartbeat slows waaaay down. Slowly ever so slowly, some bliss starts to bubble up from within. It is the climax of one pointed attention. Few people who say they "meditate" are reaching that point since it requires years of sincere effort. In Yoga, meditatio…

This is simply incorrect. There are many different types of meditation with many different types of goals. Some meditation disciplines involve slowing the breath down, while others involve speeding the breath up (research Breath of Fire). Some meditation disciplines involve quieting the mind and ignoring stimuli, while others involve opening the floodgates of sensation to more fully experience stimuli (research Vipas…

Thanks for your comment. I agree that 'Meditation' means many things to many people. Thus, I started my comment above with "In my opinion" which makes the whole comment subjective to my experience. The definition I give above, refers to the Patanjali Yoga Sutra definition of Dhyana, which is essentially an extremely old technical document related to meditation and yoga.

Something to consider, is that there seems to be some confusion on this thread between meditative practices and meditative states etc. This would be like comparing the act of drinking a lot of alcohol with the drunkenness that results. There are many different types of alcohol and varying means of consuming it but that state that results from its consumption is somewhat common to most people.

In my comment above, I was referring to Meditation as a state of consciousness where the sense organs and mind become highly introverted. In that state the mind slows way down and comes to a stop.

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#207

Post by justinhj »

prawks wrote: post #131
up_and_up wrote: post #127

In my opinion, Meditation and Mindfullness are not the same thing. Meditation is a state, where the mind is completely silent, the breath slows waaaay down, the heartbeat slows waaaay down. Slowly ever so slowly, some bliss starts to bubble up from within. It is the climax of one pointed attention. Few people who say they "meditate" are reaching that point since it requires years of sincere effort. In Yoga, meditatio…

If one were looking to get into Meditation, what is a good way of going about it? Preferably a DIY way if possible, but if a class is really the way to go that's okay. When you say years of sincere effort, are you talking devoting a full-time job's worth of time, or just keeping a routine? I've been interested in meditation for a while, but it seems whenever I try and dig around I get completely lost in literature an…

I took a meditation class at a Buddhist temple. There wasn't any Buddhism taught in the class, only meditation techniques. The advantage in my case was that going to a class where I had to sit for an hour prevented me from procrastinating about practising meditation. That alone was worth it. After a few weeks I went from no meditation experience to being able to sit for 45 minutes at a time, and found many of the proclaimed benefits of meditation come right away.

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#208

Post by idoruby »

pavedwalden wrote: post #115
konstruktor wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If those rules don't creep you out, then I don't know what does: http://www.dhamma.org/en/code.shtml No talking, no outside contact, no other forms of practice. This is not a healthy environment unless you know very well what to expect and are sure you really, really want this. It sounds very cultish to me, even though I do know somebody who goes on Vipassana retreats regularly and seems to benefit a lot. Those retre…

Cults have rules like that to cut you out of your old life, but in this case I think it's a legitimate desire to eliminate ALL distraction. I did one of their retreats many years ago and concluded that the changes in my internal life that could only happen in such an environment. For example, after a few days my internal monologue petered out and for the first time I realized that a good portion of my mental activity…

I share your experience.

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#209

Post by idoruby »

prawks wrote: post #131
up_and_up wrote: post #127

In my opinion, Meditation and Mindfullness are not the same thing. Meditation is a state, where the mind is completely silent, the breath slows waaaay down, the heartbeat slows waaaay down. Slowly ever so slowly, some bliss starts to bubble up from within. It is the climax of one pointed attention. Few people who say they "meditate" are reaching that point since it requires years of sincere effort. In Yoga, meditatio…

If one were looking to get into Meditation, what is a good way of going about it? Preferably a DIY way if possible, but if a class is really the way to go that's okay. When you say years of sincere effort, are you talking devoting a full-time job's worth of time, or just keeping a routine? I've been interested in meditation for a while, but it seems whenever I try and dig around I get completely lost in literature an…

Meditation is best done in community. Just because you will have many questions while travelling in this new space. Goenka offers a free 10 day experience and a community of meditators. Absolutely not a cult. Give it a try.

Do this and you will no longer have doubts about meditation. You will like it or hate it but you will know what it is.

Re: If You're Too Busy to Meditate, Read This

#210

Post by rsaarelm »

kamaal wrote: post #202
rsaarelm wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's one interesting short guide: http://lesswrong.com/lw/5jj/meditation_insight_and_rationali...

After reading this I don't why would anyone ever want to meditate, there are no benefits mentioned at all and getting it wrong means life long misery.

What I got from it that you get problems if you advance far enough and then don't keep going. The benefit claimed in the first part of the series is having a permanently clearer sense of your thinking process, whatever that means exactly.

I really prefer the 'this may mess you up if done wrong' meditation instruction to the usual sanitized new agey pap, purely on aesthetic level. It makes meditation sound like something that can actually be effective. Like a scalpel instead of a homeopathic solution.

Another fun article: http://blog.muflax.com/propaganda/why-you-dont-want-vipassan...

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