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Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

helsinkitimes.fi

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Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#201

Post by rozab »

graemep wrote: post #148
PaulRobinson wrote: post #113

I was in Helsinki for work a couple of years ago, walking back to my hotel with some colleagues after a few hours drinking (incredibly expensive, but quite nice), beer. It was around midnight and we happened to come across a very large mobile crane on the pavement blocking our way. As we stepped out (carefully), into the road to go around it, one of my Finnish colleagues started bemoaning that no cones or barriers ha…

On the other hand the UK as a whole had a lower road traffic realted death rate than Finland did: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua... The UK is not that different by comparison. It is a pretty remarkable achievement though, and shows what can be done.

I would guess Finnish deaths are inflated by the rural rallying culture though, hard to compare

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#202

Post by pantalaimon »

tlogan wrote: post #171
silvestrov wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How people in Helsinki get to work: Car: 23% ; PublicTransport: 47% ; Walk: 12% ; Bike: 15% How pupils in Helsinki get to school: Car: 7% ; PublicTransport: 32% ; Walk: 45% ; Bike: 14% source: https://www.hel.fi/static/liitteet/kaupunkiymparisto/julkais...

I completely agree. Though implementing it is far easier said than done. Here in San Francisco (and much of California), things are incredibly complicated. Take this example: in SF, there’s a policy that prevents kids from attending elementary school in their own neighborhoods. Instead, they’re assigned to schools on the opposite side of town. In places that are practically inaccessible without a car. And there are n…

What kind of policy is that based on? Seems very counter intuitive, aren't are supposed to meet your classmates after school?

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#203

Post by jdiff »

jerlam wrote: post #157
sdenton4 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It creates conditions for more direct accountability. There's a pretty standard pattern of getting elected, doing the more extreme things, and then giving the voters time to cool off before the election happens.

It also prevents the election losers from lighting everything on fire on the way out.

The pattern in the US seems to be to leave time bombs running that only detonate if you don't get re-elected, something that snap elections wouldn't help with.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#204

Post by TimorousBestie »

tlogan wrote: post #171
silvestrov wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How people in Helsinki get to work: Car: 23% ; PublicTransport: 47% ; Walk: 12% ; Bike: 15% How pupils in Helsinki get to school: Car: 7% ; PublicTransport: 32% ; Walk: 45% ; Bike: 14% source: https://www.hel.fi/static/liitteet/kaupunkiymparisto/julkais...

I completely agree. Though implementing it is far easier said than done. Here in San Francisco (and much of California), things are incredibly complicated. Take this example: in SF, there’s a policy that prevents kids from attending elementary school in their own neighborhoods. Instead, they’re assigned to schools on the opposite side of town. In places that are practically inaccessible without a car. And there are n…

> in SF, there’s a policy that prevents kids from attending elementary school in their own neighborhoods. Instead, they’re assigned to schools on the opposite side of town. In places that are practically inaccessible without a car. And there are no school buses.

Could you explain this policy a little more, or provide some references? I see SFUSD does some sort of matchmaking algorithm for enrollment, so what happens if you select the five (or however many) closest elementary schools? I can imagine a couple reasons why they would institute such a policy, but I’m having trouble finding documentation.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#205

Post by cyberax »

timeon wrote: post #188
cyberax wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> actively worse for everyone Can you elaborate?

Second-order effects. Bikes are nothing but misery generators. They are the absolute WORST commute mode, so people (on average) choose literally anything else when they have that option. We have plenty of proof for that. There are cities with great bike _and_ car infrastructure, and the percentage of bike commutes is about the same as everywhere else.

So the only thing that bike lanes do is sabotage cars and other ground transit.

As a double whammy, bikes are inconvenient (or illegal) to take onto the most rapid and ground transit. And bikeshares are not reliable enough for daily commutes.

All these factors motivate people to move closer to the downtowns, because it becomes inconvenient to live afar. This in turn increases the price of real estate near downtowns, resulting in real estate developers building denser housing. This in turn results in higher rents, smaller units, more crime, etc.

Yes, I have researched this, and I have numbers to back up my words.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#206

Post by Muromec »

eCa wrote: post #141
tlogan wrote: post #124

Maybe Helsinki isn’t special: just fewer cars. And they apparently only 21% of daily trips used a private car. Helsinki has about 3x fewer vehicles per capita than the average U.S. city. So it’s not surprising it’s safer since fewer cars mean fewer chances of getting hit by one. Plus their cars are much smaller. In fact, there are probably plenty of U.S. towns and cities with similar number of cars that have zero tra…

The question to ask is, why are there less cars? Public transport. As an example, just the tram network had 57 million trips in 2019. The metro, 90+ million trips annually. The commuter rail network? 70+ million. (Source: wikipedia) So yes. Urban planning has a hand or two in it.

[flagged]

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#207

Post by Saline9515 »

aDyslecticCrow wrote: post #98
kahirsch wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not per mile driven.

Most scooter and bike deaths are from being ran over by a car going too fast for the zone. If you take that into the equation of the car (instead of the scooter or bike); then you probably only have heart attacks from warm weather left as a mortality cause for the bike. So no, even per mile driven, cars kill people and bikes pretty much don't. And you should take the buss or train everywhere if you follow that logic…

This is not exactly true. First, many (most?) cyclists do not respect basic road safety rules, such as signaling when you turn, or respecting red lights. Let's not talk about safety behavior, such wearing a helmet or repressing the urge to listen music while riding a bike (I know, crazy, right?).

In France, each dataset shows consistently that accidents are very often caused by cyclists. 35% of the deadly accidents involving another road user were caused by cyclists, and if you consider serious accidents, in 2/3rd of the cases, no cars were involved.

Many deadly accidents are also caused by...a stroke (22% of the deaths), especially for older cyclists. This contradicts your point, as 1/3rd of the "solo deaths" are not caused by strokes. Indeed, 35% of the cyclists dying on the road do not involve another road user.

Hence, when you consider the total amount of cyclists killed on the road, less than half are in accidents where the car is responsible. In the case of suicide-by-redlight, is the car really to blame honestly? [0]

Hence, when accounting for minutes spend on the road, bikes are by far the most dangerous (excluding motorbikes, which at this point is a public program for organ donation).[1]

[0] https://www.cerema.fr/system/files/documents/2024/05/3._2024...

[1] https://www.quechoisir.org/actualite-velo-infographie-plus-d...

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#208

Post by globalise83 »

egypturnash wrote: post #169
rimbo789 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Itll for sure get worse once most cars are autonomous and are programmed badly

Every time I see a Cybertruck while I'm on my bike I am stunned at how badly that thing is designed, it's got a hood higher than my head and a front that slopes backwards as it goes down, so that anything it hits is just naturally shoved under it, this is a machine built for vehicular homicide. How the fuck did that get allowed on the road at all.

It's not allowed in Europe, and I very much doubt it ever will be.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#209

Post by AnthonyMouse »

Muromec wrote: post #173
crote wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how it works. It's a 30km/h speed limit for one kilometer in your local neighbourhood until you hit the first through road, then it'll be 50km/h / 60km/h / 80 km/h / 120 km/h as usual, and another one kilometer at 30 km/h at your destination. In other words, it's 2km at 30km/h plus 48km at 80km/h, versus 2km at 50km/h plus 48km at 80km/h. That's a difference of 1 minute 36 seconds.

Here for example is a map of Amsterdam (click on Wegcategorie en snelheid). Inside the block it's 15 km/h, on blue roads are 30, red roads are 50. The map doesn't color-code the highways, as they don't belong to municipality, but they are 100. https://maps.amsterdam.nl/30km/ It's like that since last December and was somewhat controversial when introduced (expanded), because muh freedoms, but not the kind of enduring…

That map seems like the thing not to do. They have one section of the city where nearly the whole thing is blue and another section where nearly the whole thing is red, whereas what you would presumably want is to make every other road the alternate speed so that cars can prefer the faster roads and pedestrians can prefer the slower roads, thereby not just lowering speeds near pedestrians but also separating most of the cars from them whatsoever, and meanwhile allowing the cars to travel at higher speeds on the roads where most of the pedestrians aren't.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#210

Post by Muromec »

jeffbee wrote: post #190
Muromec wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then if they fail the exam, appoint to the public office.

Thereby increasing the number of officials without access to cars? A diabolical plan!

Everybody gets a personal chauffeur and the problem is solved. Check and mate, dirty commie urbanistas.
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