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Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

psychiatrymargins.com

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Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#201

Post by financltravsty »

gknapp wrote: post #182
hopelite wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> And no, please spare us all your justifications for how caffeine is fine or micro-dosing has been amazing, because they are simply varying levels of rationalization, I do it too, I’m just not in it as deeply. And no, just because you were able to become rich with and on the back of drugs does not mean you did it without harm, you likely just scandalized a lot of harm to, e.g., get rich selling some service to some…

I hate to write out these words, but you're strawmanning.

The point is caffeine etc. corrupt the mind and cause a person's mental faculties to run in a way they were not initially designed to.

The point is not that these drugs are all extremely harmful, only that they are all harmful. Caffeine and other things get a pass because the "hard drugs" are so uniquely and visibly harmful that they overshadow all other forms of harm.

One could even say that this has tricked us into thinking that lesser drugs like caffeine or canabinoids are "effectively harmless" because they're not causing us to OD or steal things to get another hit or causing visibly psychotic states. But that is not true. We've simply accepted that the harm they due is not worth thinking about (this is subjective, not objective).

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#202

Post by vbezhenar »

bettercallsalad wrote: post #75

As someone who is currently dating someone with history of psychosis, I have vested interest. 90% of the time she is truly the most amazing, compassionate, full of life and thoughtful person one can ever meet. Then there are times when it’s truly awful. She can barely sleep at all, leaves house without telling anyone seemingly thinking the presence of third person around. And she strongly feels others around are judg…

She will break down, then she'll get strong meds and she'll change unrecognizably. Think twice before making a long relationship with this person. You'll get a lot of stress and eventually she'll change drastically.

Schizophrenia has a strong genetic component, so think twice about making a children as well.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#203

Post by pier25 »

bettercallsalad wrote: post #75

As someone who is currently dating someone with history of psychosis, I have vested interest. 90% of the time she is truly the most amazing, compassionate, full of life and thoughtful person one can ever meet. Then there are times when it’s truly awful. She can barely sleep at all, leaves house without telling anyone seemingly thinking the presence of third person around. And she strongly feels others around are judg…

That sounds like my mother (except for the "90% of the time" comment). I can tell you from experience it would be a bad idea to have kids, even adopting.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#204

Post by mandmandam »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #139
mandmandam wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's difficult to hear theories from folks that don't have as much of a stake. It's not a theory that CBD has anti-psychotic properties. It certainly does , we just don't fully understand why . My theory is that it will someday be part of treatment plans; and as someone with skin in the game I would hope that you care enough to learn a bit more about it. The comparison to anti-vaxxers with autism in the family is n…

> is not appropriate here Actually, if the agenda of pushing CBD therapy applies, then it is. I know a number of folks that have autistic children, of various levels, from "nerd," to "wheelchair-bound." Their parents are usually absolute saints, regardless of their political views, or misinformation diets, and live in constant pain; making daily sacrifices that I don't think many folks here, can even comprehend. We w…

CBD has an antipsychotic effect. There's not really any debate on that in the scientific community, and I've already provided a link. That's not part of some sinister agenda to legalize cannabis, it's just stating facts to clear up the misinformation which at this point you are willfully repeating.

> The real villains, here, are the people that have secondary agendas (like legalizing drugs, or pushing political agendas), and look at people like us, with very real pain, as nothing but pawns, to be used to push their agenda

Your assumption that I don't also have personal experience, and a stake, and real pain with this issue is based on what exactly? Did I miss the part where you asked me about my own experience, or does your personal experience trump my own for some reason?

I do, in fact, have all three. That has no bearing whatsoever on the basic fact that CBD has confirmed anti-psychotic potential with particular regard to schizophrenia, as was already linked above.

Finally, there's no secret agenda here - cannabis should be legalized. It's just basic common sense and decency, for all the reasons I've already stated and more. Prohibition doesn't work and we have decades of data proving that beyond any doubt.

Have rates of psychosis shot up in states where cannabis was legalized? No, according to a massive analysis of 63,680,589 beneficiaries followed for 2,015,189,706 person-months [0]. So please, stop with the reefer madness. I'm sorry about your family member but if you want to help people you could really try looking at the data.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#205

Post by lokar »

drgo wrote: post #96

Is it possible that the pro-schizophrenia genes persist because they offer other (non-neurological) benefits, e.g., lower risk of cancer? Siblings of patients with schizophrenia are less likely to develop cancer, and in several studies these patients had lower risk of developing cancer despite higher prevalence of smoking.

The benefit must be to reproduction. Cancer generally happens after peak reproductive years.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#206

Post by overu589 »

motorest wrote: post #184
xyproto wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you cannot explain your beliefs, how do you expect others to just take your unverified and unsubstantiated claims as something worth considering over any random claim from any random loony? Even without an explanation, you can use statistics to find the fruits of the beliefs, though. Does 100 people believe in not working and rather join a cult that worships the watermelon god? Fine! How did that work out for th…

> Even without an explanation, you can use statistics to find the fruits of the beliefs, though. I hope you are not serious. > Does 100 people believe in not working and rather join a cult that worships the watermelon god? Hundreds of loonies making nonsense statements that no one can verify is collective lunacy that adds no value. It only takes a single person to show something exists and works to add substance to a…

> It only takes a single person to show something exists and world to add substance to a claim

You cannot be serious. Proofs take thousands of man hours and decades of railing against well entrenched beliefs such as yours (that you would see it and accept it readily if true.)

This is one of those things that cannot be proven to more than one person at a time through anything other than a personal revelation. Everyone everywhere will respond exactly as you now do regardless of “poof” or the severity and consequence of prolonged incredulity. This is one of those situations where you must undeceive yourself. Observe humanity and your own life. All except those who actively deceive themselves will admit science is as close to understanding our minds as horoscopes.

I do not criticize your doubts, I criticize that you think truth and reality are so easily accepted by the mind who “refuses to believe.”

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#207

Post by dustbunny »

ekaryotic wrote: post #193
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no such thing as a “pro schizophrenia genes”. There are only genes that increase the risk of schizophrenia, and this is probably due to environmental variables. Exchanging a risk for cancer for a risk of schizophrenia is not a win-win situation. You’re just switching one set of risk genes for another.

>Exchanging a risk for cancer for a risk of schizophrenia is not a win-win situation But it can be though. Consider a population that works with carcinogens like coal. due to capitalist class structures, they cannot leave their occupation, so a gene that would increase their survivability would be a great help.

Schizophrenia is far more likely to prevent you from reproducing than cancer, because schizophrenia hits way earlier.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#208

Post by sethammons »

blueprint wrote: post #98
subpixel wrote: post #43

Schizophrenia can coexist with extreme levels of intelligence and lucidity. A schizophrenic member of my family argued in divorce court that her husband, a leading physician at one of the most famous medical institutions in the world, was secretly involved in outrageous nefarious activities. The stories were all fiction but she was so convincing that the judge awarded her a ruling in the divorce that ruined her husba…

I wouldn't exactly call it intelligent to lie to a court ;) Perhaps another descriptor would be more precise? For that matter, can one be "truly lucid" if one lies in such a manner?

People lie in court all day every day. If you think everyone is being honest, you are delusional and must not be truly lucid.

Note, I don't question your lucidity. But hope it shows the fallacy of your logic train.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#209

Post by asveikau »

winrid wrote: post #15
suzzer99 wrote: post #9

I've lost one of my best friends to what I think is schizophrenia. We don't know because she's cut off all contact with friends and family and refuses to see a doctor. It's definitely psychosis. She thinks she's in some kind of Truman show that she calls "the game". Since none of her friends or family are willing to admit to it, then we must be in on it. We don't know her full family medical history because her dad w…

If you have a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia it's starting to seem like drugs that seem harmless like marijuana (specifically THC?) can definitely bring it out. At least, that's what seemed to happen to my mother and another friend.

It's important to know that the correlation can have some other cause. Like that people with predisposition to schizophrenia may seek out drugs.

Keep in mind also the typical onset for schizophrenia is teenage years or early 20s in men, and is often later, up to early 30s in women. These are years you might experiment with drugs.

Re: Schizophrenia is the price we pay for minds poised near the edge of a cliff

#210

Post by _zagj »

vbezhenar wrote: post #202
bettercallsalad wrote: post #75

As someone who is currently dating someone with history of psychosis, I have vested interest. 90% of the time she is truly the most amazing, compassionate, full of life and thoughtful person one can ever meet. Then there are times when it’s truly awful. She can barely sleep at all, leaves house without telling anyone seemingly thinking the presence of third person around. And she strongly feels others around are judg…

She will break down, then she'll get strong meds and she'll change unrecognizably. Think twice before making a long relationship with this person. You'll get a lot of stress and eventually she'll change drastically. Schizophrenia has a strong genetic component, so think twice about making a children as well.

Please don't downvote or flag this person unless you have a family member (or better, family members) with schizophrenia.
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