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Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status

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Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status

#201

Post by immibis »

scoofy wrote: post #180
v1ne wrote: post #142

The email thread continues. Linus later responded with: >No, but I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to go into the details that I - and other maintainers - were told by lawyers. >I'm also not going to start discussing legal issues with random internet people who I seriously suspect are paid actors and/or have been riled up by them. Which I find pretty concerning statements, quite a disservice to the community. It's a…

Open source means put up or shut up. If you don’t like the institutions, then build it yourself. You can’t cry foul when the group is literally providing you with free software. Open source institutions don’t own anyone anything beyond open software.

And right now Linus is not putting up, is suddenly actively refusing to put up, and we're all very concerned about that.

As an open source community leader, putting up consists of leading well, and transparently. It's not just a coding role. He may have inherited the leadership role by being the original coder but he has to keep it by being a worthy leader.

I speculate Linus or Greg received the equivalent of a National Security Letter. Otherwise they could point to the regulations.

Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status

#202

Post by immibis »

Fifnmar101 wrote: post #171
TiredOfLife wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it walks, talks, and looks like a duck it's probably a duck.

Has Nazi become a symbol rather than a concept to you? Is it true that 'Nazi = US enemies'? Do you agree that Israel are playing Nazi's deeds?

My comment would be deleted if I answered your question about Israel, but there is no mainstream left-wing media or left-wing political party in the USA.

Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status

#203

Post by 4bpp »

sobellian wrote: post #24
homebrewer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Well, what do you propose? We're obviously far past the point of diplomacy. The sanctions are not designed to change hearts and minds. They're designed to make Russia's war efforts more difficult. The sorry state of affairs is that Russia's government has made itself a huge problem and there are no good solutions.

I doubt this particular move will complicate Russia's war efforts in any appreciable way. There is no non-fanciful way in which the named, well-established and closely watched kernel maintainers could have leveraged their status for it, and the tech scene has been one of the remaining bastions of pro-Western sentiment in Russian society. How many young programmers will be disenchanted with the West after hearing of this, and finally relent and answer their government's call to go write software for military drones or whatever?

Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status

#204

Post by throwup238 »

woleium wrote: post #198
scoofy wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open source means put up or shut up. If you don’t like the institutions, then build it yourself. You can’t cry foul when the group is literally providing you with free software. Open source institutions don’t own anyone anything beyond open software.

That is the letter of the law, yes. I would suggest though that the spirit / intent behind the law includes fostering a community, which in turn encourages open and clear communication.

> spirit / intent behind the law

What specific law are you talking about?

Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status

#205

Post by fsckboy »

Fifnmar101 wrote: post #175
Wytwwww wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nazi might be too strong? Don't think they used that word though? Russia is an objectively fascist (not technically "nazi" of course) state, though. It literally ticks almost all the boxes.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying good words to any regime. I mean both the US sanction and the Russian invasion suck. I don't want another country bossing over what you can do, and I don't want another country pointing guns on your head either. Russia is bad, but that doesn't mean I'm in support of bans like this without a reason. Just because you "have the reason to commit crimes" is not strong enough a reason to ex…

>doesn't mean I'm in support of bans like this without a reason

You're saying that you don't trust Torvalds. I do trust him.

Linus said there are legal reasons that involve laws and lawyers and he's not going to go into more detail on the internet. If you had responsibilities to other people as Linus does, and those responsibilities included discussions with attorneys, you'd be a fool to talk about the details i public, so your personal needs in this matter don't see important to me.

He also says he's not US but Finnish, and given the history of Russia's attitude toward Finland, he's fine with it. He also says that what's involved here is not simply US law or policy, so laying the blame for this on the US is misguided.

Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status

#206

Post by throw-the-towel »

nradov wrote: post #196
thayne wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes the common folk can put pressure on their leaders, which is usually not the case for countries targeted by sanctions from the US, which usually have autocratic or otherwise authoritarian governments.

History is full of violent revolutions against autocratic governments. We should inflict maximum pain on the Russian populace. Be as cruel as possible. Keep the pressure on. Eventually it might pay off. And even if it doesn't work, it serves as an object lesson to other countries on the consequences of opposing US policies.

So, what you want is essentially pushing a whole country's population around for your own amusement? Very motivating, not gonna lie!

Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status

#207

Post by fragmede »

4bpp wrote: post #199
zhdi wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what, now you can directly watched by CCP?

Why should this be a problem for anyone outside of China? It's only when the same people can read your messages and send dudes with guns to your doorstep if they don't like what they see that things actually get dangerous.

FBI makes arrests over alleged secret Chinese 'police stations' in New York

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65305415.amp

Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status

#208

Post by 4bpp »

fragmede wrote: post #207
4bpp wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should this be a problem for anyone outside of China? It's only when the same people can read your messages and send dudes with guns to your doorstep if they don't like what they see that things actually get dangerous.

FBI makes arrests over alleged secret Chinese 'police stations' in New York https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65305415.amp

That's interesting, but these seem like they are just a slightly more structured form of the ways in which the CCP has been known to keep track of their own nationals abroad for many years. Not only is there no evidence or reason to expect that they would interact with people who are not PRC nationals, they presumably don't have guns and certainly have no actual policing powers either. If these "Chinese police stations" were to dispatch someone to my door, I could just call the actual police to have them removed. Meanwhile, I doubt I could call the "Chinese police stations" to protect me from the police of the country I live in, if they were to act upon a friendly request from the US like the Swedes and British did with Assange or the New Zealanders did with Kim Dotcom.

Re: Several Russian developers lose kernel maintainership status

#210

Post by protomolecule »

Wytwwww wrote: post #170
protomolecule wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That certainly absolves Sadam of the tens of thousands of murders committed by his government. That's a perfectly reasonable and sane take. Hitler himself faced quite a few false accusations (e.g. even for crimes actually committed by the Soviets). Certainly that would mean that he did nothing wrong according to a troll like yourself?

>That certainly absolves

That was a strawman argument.

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