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Living outside America

ryancarson.com

201–210 of 216 posts

Re: Living outside America

#201

Just wrapping up a several weeks trip to Europe (London, Cologne, Edinburgh) as we speak. I think I'm having the opposite observation. Western cultures have so much in common it has actually been surprising to me. I always expected to be amazed by the differences, but if you throw out all of the superficial stuff the set of appreciable differences is rather smaller. As for his specific points 1. I have no idea how so…

I wonder if more Americans would travel through Europe if they knew how easy it is. EVERYBODY speaks English. And yet, you still get to experience the cultures and augment your worldview a bit.

Well, not everybody but enough in the touristy areas speaks it, but like someone pointed out to me; "for them learning English is occasionally something you do in school, how much French do you remember?". Google + patience solves those situations though.

Re: Living outside America

#202
post #161
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What in the world is your definition of "culture"? It is not something that is rooted mainly in age, as if a 80 year old could be assumed to have more "culture" that a 30-year-old pioneering artist.

I'm sorry, I wanted to write a brief comment and it seems I offended you. I don't defy USA has a great contemporary culture but it's just one side of it. Another side is what you so easily dismiss - the history and traditions. Culture in the sense we're discussing is not something you can associate with one person. It's a collective term that basically describes the full range of learned human behavior patterns, whic…

Immigration and quick assimilation are both very american. America is a settler nation, we define ourselves by where we came from, and are proud about it. The second generation of immigrants growing up in america will have little to relate to from their parents culture and will be more aligned with american values. I have an immense number of friends who's parents are not from america and when they visit their country of origin they are like a fish out of water, unable to relate. So yes, a black guy from boston, the son of a mexican immigrant, and a redneck from florida are more alike than you or they realize. It's when americans meet other americans while travelling outside the US that this becomes very apparent.

Re: Living outside America

#203
post #172
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't lived in Germany (I've visited for maybe 3 weeks total), and in terms of quality of life, it wasn't that different from the US, at least for the things you see as a short-term tourist. Lots of stuff was more expensive (vs. SF baseline), and rural Germany around 2000 was pretty undeveloped, but Berlin would be more representative. I'm also using SFBA, NY, Boston, Seattle as exemplars of the US. I'd rather li…

W/re UK. Chris Kipllip did a photo documentary called "In Flagrante". NE England in the 80's (not sure about now) was a depressed place to be.

Edit, misspelling. The photographer's name is Chris Killip, the book is out of print, but Available on Amazon as a Bookb on Books. He has others about depressed areas in England/UK.

Re: Living outside America

#204
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the USA was ever an overreaching empire, it was very reluctantly. OK, we picked some fights and managed to take a fair chunk of our own continent, but we were also isolationist to a fault until the mid-20th century. It was the Europeans who managed to rope us into both of their "world wars"--and in 1945, when you're looking at the whole of Europe spent and in ruins, and Joseph Stalin as the last dictator standing-…

Hey, there's a monument right on Montgomery & Market in San Francisco celebrating California's achieving statehood in 1850. It reads: "The Unity of Our Empire Hangs on the Decision of This Day". And here's a graphic from 1898 which proudly shows the US eagle dominating an entire side of the globe, from the Philippines to Puerto Rico. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:10kMiles.JPG I know you mentioned the Phillipines…

Along with that adventure in Hawaii, the Spanish-American War was our one shot at European-style imperialism. Rudyard Kipling even wrote us a poem about it at the time. But it didn't work out and we gave the Philippines back to its own people by 1946. (Puerto Rico isn't independent because they don't really want to be, same as Hawaii.)

The continental US west of the original colonies was an interesting case. We only got the bulk of it because Napoleon put the entire Louisiana Territory on fire sale--he wanted to cut his losses in America after losing Haiti and needed the money to try and conquer Europe. We only really wanted the Mississippi River delta to begin with. We did kind of pick a fight with Mexico, but we didn't conquer the whole country, and even paid for the parts we took. Oregon was a disputed claim and we split it down the middle with the British. And Alaska we paid for fair and square. As for the American Indians, you have a point there but frankly smallpox had already depopulated the continent and it was practically empty. If it wasn't, I don't think anyone would have been able to conquer America from the American Indians--nor would any colonial power.

When people call the US an empire, they usually aren't thinking about the Spanish-American War. They're thinking about all the countries we station troops in (most of them asked us to), or all the Coca-Cola we sell (which the world voluntarily buys). We have a big sphere of influence because not too long ago, the world needed us to. We were the only democratic allied power left largely untouched by WWII, and our "imperialism" at the time consisted largely of a Marshall Plan designed to rebuild a continent that destroyed itself twice over, both times somehow roping us into the action.

Can you honestly think of a country the US has dominated against its will since the Philippines? You might be able to make a case for South Vietnam, and you could name maybe a dozen countries we covertly subverted, but outright domination? We didn't hold a candle to the Soviets.

Re: Living outside America

#205
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opening Note: Personal views- Practicing Jewish most of my upbringing, now agnostic by choice "If the Danish prime minister started confessing her belief in a god she'd be laughed out of the room." As an 18 year old American, active in American politics (I've done minor campaigning, father is a US History teacher), this is utterly strange. A politician that was not some denomination of Christianity would be, most lik…

As an interesting aside, there's a strong negative correlation between GDP per capita and religion; the richer a country is the less religious it is. America is the exception that sticks out like a sore thumb on a graph.

And how might that graph look if you take each state in the union as a sovereign entity and map it accordingly? It might actually make it fall in line with the trend, as I think the fact that these disjointed states are taken as a group is what's making the USA stick out like a sore thumb.

Re: Living outside America

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The concept of God abounds in our Pledge of Allegiance, in our graduation ceremonies, in our political speeches--it is almost universally accepted and above question. You probably know this already, but Yahweh's prominence on the coinage and in the Pledge of Allegiance is a relatively recent phenomenon. It wasn't until 1908 that 'In God We Trust' was mandated on the coinage, and 'under God' wasn't inserted into the…

>"Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion." Except perhaps religion meddling with the national government?

The specter still haunting many Americans in those days was the Anglican Church, a monarchical organ in a religious fascia. The aggressive meddling of the Roman Church in national affairs had largely abated and was a non-issue in the nascent United States. His emphasis must be understood in that context.

Re: Living outside America

#207

To really understand America, you must not only live in it, but also live outside it. Note: I am from the USA, and "we" or "our" refers to us Americans. I spent 3 years abroad, recently returning to the USA this summer, and I will try to outline some of what I learned, although it is somewhat difficult as this knowledge has become ingrained in me and obvious as to seem to require no explanation. - English as lingua f…

> Take a look at prices for electronics in Asia, for example. In the very places where the electronics are made, the retail prices are all significantly higher than those in the US. Samsung and LG TVs cost more in Korea than they do in America. Computers cost more in China than they do in the USA. I frequently found myself waiting until I returned to US soil before I made any big ticket electronic or computer purchas…

Thank you for correcting me on that point. I did not realize the VAT was the reason for the price disparity.

Besides currency controls is the VAT the only reason for the price disparity?

Re: Living outside America

#208

To really understand America, you must not only live in it, but also live outside it. Note: I am from the USA, and "we" or "our" refers to us Americans. I spent 3 years abroad, recently returning to the USA this summer, and I will try to outline some of what I learned, although it is somewhat difficult as this knowledge has become ingrained in me and obvious as to seem to require no explanation. - English as lingua f…

> the effectiveness of USA institutions: legal system, courts, law enforcement, Congress, media, higher education Good governance and higher civilization aren't created overnight Couldn't you have just copied them from Britain and France - wouldn't that have been easier ?

The legal system, perhaps. Numerous former colonies have adopted British or French law for use in their own countries.

My point was that the law itself often isn't the problem. China and India have strong laws; they just aren't enforced properly. The problem is corruption and lack of cultural values and professionalism in those institutions. To use a startup analogy, the problem is not in lack of good ideas, the problem lies in the execution.

Re: Living outside America

#209
post #22

I've been able to do the first 3 without leaving (perhaps because I wasn't born here), and number 4 doesn't seem so certain. What I noticed about living outside America when I did it later as an adult was that it made it clearer what was distinctive about the US. Many of the distinctive things I noticed could be summed up by describing America as a young culture. Americans have the optimism and energy of youth, but t…

Would you consider that modern (northern) Italy is a young culture?

Re: Living outside America

#210
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, there's a monument right on Montgomery & Market in San Francisco celebrating California's achieving statehood in 1850. It reads: "The Unity of Our Empire Hangs on the Decision of This Day". And here's a graphic from 1898 which proudly shows the US eagle dominating an entire side of the globe, from the Philippines to Puerto Rico. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:10kMiles.JPG I know you mentioned the Phillipines…

Along with that adventure in Hawaii, the Spanish-American War was our one shot at European-style imperialism. Rudyard Kipling even wrote us a poem about it at the time. But it didn't work out and we gave the Philippines back to its own people by 1946. (Puerto Rico isn't independent because they don't really want to be, same as Hawaii.) The continental US west of the original colonies was an interesting case. We only…

Can you honestly think of a country the US has dominated against its will since the Philippines?

There are many countries where the US has toppled one government for another, or propped up a leader the populace didn't like.

That's where most of the criticism comes from.

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