GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account • Hacker News Board

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#201

Post by throwaway63-90 » Wed, May 16, 2012, 4:08 AM UTC

cletus wrote: post #114

I've said this repeatedly: Facebook is a high-risk proposition, particularly as an investment (disclaimer: I work for Google). "Intent" as other commenters have noted is a big part of the story but it's not the only story. Search can broadly be broken up into at least two categories: 1. Navigational eg typing "b and h" into the browser; and 2. Informational eg "cheap flights to jamaica". I don't know what the make up…

Finally a sensible analysis.

Some people are just in a kind of Facebook daze.

"Hey, they had income for 3 years in a row. One billion last year. This is a sure winner."

They refuse to look at what Facebook actually does.

People will probably read your post and think you're biased because you work for Google. But there's a huge difference in what Google Plus can accomplish. You guys have the search engine data (intent) to combine with the social data.

So why doesn't Microsoft let Facebook combine with Bing? Then they would have a search engine. Or are they planning to do that already?

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#202

Post by throwaway63-90 » Wed, May 16, 2012, 4:32 AM UTC

Imagine you have somethng to sell, I have the ability to place ads in people's homes via their electronic devices and I give you the choice of placing an ad for your product in one of two places.

You can place the ad into everyone's photo albums so that when they are flipping through photos they will see your ad.

Or you can place your ad in everyone's telephone book so when they are looking up the contact information for some source of some product, they will see your ad.

Which one would you choose?

Of course, in the real world, advertisers can choose both. They will advertise both on Google and Facebook.

And sure, it matters what the product is.

But overall which do you think is more valuable?

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#203

Post by malandrew » Wed, May 16, 2012, 4:42 AM UTC

Drbble wrote: post #153

molmalo wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me ask you something: When you want to search something, do you first go to your facebook account and tell your friends "hey, I want to learn more about x!" and then go to your favorite search engine, and actually do your search? I bet you don't. In your example, if the mom is saying "tonight", it probably means that she wants to see it "tonight" (maybe she doesn't have the time right now). so, they should try to…

Look up "retargeting". Creepily chasing people around the web is successful for advertisers.

I think retargeting is really only creepy for people like us who are smart enough to link the retargeting back to our identity because we are logged into google.

My mom (again) is subjected to retargeting, but she doesn't identify it as tied to her identity so much as tied to the current search. She uses gmail for work and her personal account (because i set up a google apps account for her), but I doubt she knows that just because she's logged into gmail that google search is tying that information back to her identity.

This is a far cry from Facebook where people know that things in Facebook are tied back to their identity, and not only that is tied back to their identity in a way that may be visible to friends and family.

Both Google and Facebook track you, but Facebook is personal, and people are aware of that fact.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#204

Post by tomkarlo » Wed, May 16, 2012, 4:42 AM UTC

larrys wrote: post #198

jrockway wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that any Google employee is going to reply to your comment with advice. "As a Google employee, I say invest!" is not going to get you on the good side of the lawyercats. What I think is interesting about Google is how much voting power the founders retain. Things like a campus of solar panels, space elevators, and self driving cars (not to mention Chrome and Android) make a lot more sense when you reali…

"is not going to get you on the good side of the lawyercats." I don't know of anything in particular that would prevent an employee of a company from posting a comment here or in a blog reply anywhere simply saying they thought it was a good idea to buy the stock that would warrant any action. But lets say (since I don't have time to fully research this I'm basing my answer on many years in business and dealing with…

As an employee, it's not the federal government you'd worry about. It's your own company's lawyers, etc. You're much more likely to get in trouble internally for violating the company's policies about making statements related to the stock valuation than any outside entity.

Employees at Google (and many other tech companies) are often privy to what would be considered "inside information" about the company's future plans and performance. Making statements about the stock price's relative valuation can be seen as a form of making tips based on that material non-public information. It's not a good idea to go around making statements (positive or negative) about the current valuation.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#205

Post by tomkarlo » Wed, May 16, 2012, 4:46 AM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #168

Drbble wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up "retargeting". Creepily chasing people around the web is successful for advertisers.

It is a successful tool for ad networks to provide because advertisers pay more for it, I've yet to be convinced that it actually increases conversions. If I keep seeing an ad over and over again, I just get annoyed.

I've seen the number, it converts far, far better than average ads. On the order of 10X, for the campaigns I've seen. That's partially because clickthrough rates overall keep dropping, but still, they're really effective.

Yes, it's annoying if you're in the 95% of customers who won't actually convert. But it only has to be effective about 1 out of 20 times to be a huge improvement (and that 1 might even be you, but you're mostly annoyed by the other 19 times.)

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#206

Post by tmuir » Wed, May 16, 2012, 4:49 AM UTC

coffeemug wrote: post #178

This might have much more to do with GM than it does with Facebook. It doesn't matter how much money you plunge into ads, which ad platforms you use, and how targeted the ads are if nobody wants your product.

General Motors was the number one selling auto company in the world in 2011 with 9.025 million units sold, outselling second place by a full million.

I know plenty of people that will never buy a GM, regardless of their advertising. However, advertising is crucially important to GM success.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#207

Post by badclient » Wed, May 16, 2012, 4:49 AM UTC

AznHisoka wrote: post #183

badclient wrote: post #149

All this will be moot when Facebook launches its search engine in couple years.

It takes time to actually build a search engine - you just can't get up and say you're gonna build one. Even if you somehow bring in a partner like Bing. Google has been fighting spammers, scrapers, black-hatters, and thinking about all kinds of search problems for over a decade.

Google has been fighting spammers, scrapers, black-hatters, and thinking about all kinds of search problems for over a decade.

Same could have been said of Yahoo and other search engines before Google.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#208

Post by malandrew » Wed, May 16, 2012, 4:52 AM UTC

tomkarlo wrote: post #106

malandrew wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intent is huge. I've never been one to click on Google Ads except in real rare instances. Only once I observed my mom using Google did I realize the full value of intent and google ads while searching. She wanted to watch an episode of The Good Wife that she had missed so she searched in the Safari omnibar for "watch The Good Wife" and the first div under the search bar is an ad to some site that was not CBS that had…

It seems to me like even if it was an ad, your mom's usage connected intent with desired result better than yours. Obviously confusion isn't great, but what she said she wanted to do was "watch the Good Wife", not "watch the Good Wife on CBS".

Ironically, yes, definitely. I almost never watch TV, but I would have gone straight to the Pirate Bay if I were to watch it myself, because I doubted that and cable channel except Comedy Central would allow me to watch something streaming on demand from their site. TBH, when she said she had watched it on CBS' site I was skeptical.

I know illegitimate streaming sites exist out there, but I kind of assume they are ad riddled and provide a poorer experience than torrents.

I guess you could say it's one spin on the curse of knowledge.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#209

Post by fluidcruft » Wed, May 16, 2012, 4:56 AM UTC

steve8918 wrote: post #200

cletus wrote: post #114

I've said this repeatedly: Facebook is a high-risk proposition, particularly as an investment (disclaimer: I work for Google). "Intent" as other commenters have noted is a big part of the story but it's not the only story. Search can broadly be broken up into at least two categories: 1. Navigational eg typing "b and h" into the browser; and 2. Informational eg "cheap flights to jamaica". I don't know what the make up…

You make it sound like search is the be all and end all reason why people use the Internet. It's not. It's obvious that a Google employee would believe this, and believe me, I think Google ads are amazingly effective when used with Google search. I've just started using Adwords and it's great. But Facebook is entirely different from Google search, and there is no reason why their monetization techniques need to be th…

I'm not sure general brand awareness efforts are as financially valuable as interactions with customers that are in "I'm about to buy something" mode. When someone intends to move money, getting a piece of the action is more valuable and I think search engines are where people go to find reviews, prices etc (this also includes commerce sites that rely on a search interface--Amazon, Ebay, Craigslist).

On the other hand, I would assume that people performing any sort of search to are likely to be more focused and less open to extraneous ads--so I think things like issue/political/awareness ads probably are better suited to facebook. I'm just very skeptical that the amount of revenue facebook could extract routinely from these could top what someone sitting at a search engine can extract (it's easier to skim off an impending financial transaction). Another thing depressing the value of issue/political ads on social networks is the "viral" vector for spreading a message where people freely share things they believe with their communities. I'm more likely to attend to things actually shared with me by my friends than ads thrown in the mix.

So, in the end I'm not startled that GM finds paid ads on facebook aren't too cost effective--cars aren't impulse buys (ad viewers will hit a search engine before they actually make a decision) and there are cheaper (i.e. nearly free) ways to raise brand awareness.

Re: GM Says Facebook Ads Don't Work, Pulls $10 Million Account

#210

Post by malandrew » Wed, May 16, 2012, 5:12 AM UTC

dageshi wrote: post #61

bgilroy26 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not with timing like this, which would create such bad blood. This news item has an ulterior motive. Not that that precludes the possibility that Facebook ads don't work.

Perhaps the author has been sitting on said story for a while and decided to publish it at point of maximum impact? It's likely to get a lot more attention now than it would do at almost any other time.

Ahh... the good ol' news hook.

relevant: http://www.themillions.com/2012/04/the-berenstain-bears-and-...