DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it • Hacker News Board

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#201

Post by technick » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 8:52 AM UTC

dash488 wrote: post #125

After the impact of the MGM hack this year Cesars probably revisited their insurance on getting compromised. After the auditors and lawyers looked at all the risks they came across DEF CON and said no because of the wording of how DEF CON is marketed. Their choice was probably to drop them or loose coverage. DEF CON is listed as a "hacker convention held annually in Las Vegas, Nevada." where Blackhat is "Black Hat is…

Caesars was hacked by the same attackers that pwned Okta, and used the stolen keys and tokens to get into Caesars. It was nothing carried out by Defcon in any way.

Anyone that takes this scene seriously knows Defcon is the place to be. Blackhat is a overpriced vendor circle jerk. The only way to make Blackhat relevant again is to kick out all of the vendors and if you can't do that, forbid them from collecting peoples information.

This is going to be my 11th year at Defcon this year. I snuck into a couple of blackhats and didn't get any value from them. I've been around the block a few times.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#202

Post by technick » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 8:53 AM UTC

hipadev23 wrote: post #94

After last year, Caesars likely has a large insurance policy covering against ransomware attacks. That policy probably says something along the lines of "valid as long as you don't knowingly invite tens of thousands of hackers to your property"

Which is stupid because Caesars breach was directly tied to Okta's breach.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#203

Post by fragmede » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 8:54 AM UTC

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #7

Christ I'm old. I still remember when it was at the AP. Although I've left that part of my life behind, I'm glad DEF CON is still around.

Rivera

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#204

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 8:55 AM UTC

technick wrote: post #196

nimos wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt they would cancel a contract already in place for that reason. Not renew the contract - sure. But canceling an already scheduled event because of low revenue per guest doesn't seem very likely to me? Or maybe it was some sort of ongoing agreement and canceling it was effectively "not renewing".

I will need to dig up the archives from DC 27 when the deal with Caesars forum was officially announced, but if memory serves me correctly DT said it was a 5 or 10 year contract. So unless there was some verbaige in the contract that allows Caesars to cancel for any reason, they're going to be cutting DEFCON a check.

A 5-year contract starting at DC 27 would hold thru DC 31, so DC 32 fits the "not renewing" hypothesis.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#205

Post by technick » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 8:56 AM UTC

belter wrote: post #44

Next Year's DEFCON Keynote... "How We Hacked Caesar's Booking System"

Absolutely, I'm already seeing some chatter from groups that want to get "even" with Caesars for displacing a 25 year tradition for strategy. I hope they have some good defenses installed now that you've pissed off no less than 10k infosec people.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#206

Post by guappa » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 8:56 AM UTC

mynameisnoone wrote: post #121

rpmisms wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, programmers like poker, but not games of chance. This also describes me. Poker is a data-heavy game of skill and memory, Craps is about the opposite.

I went with a bunch of CS/bioinformatics/MD IITians to Reno, NV once. They were just there to gamble on games of chance. Personally, I think gambling is boring and stupid if the expectation isn't significantly positive. I'd gamble if skill was the dominating factor and the expectation wasn't so abysmal.

If it was skill based, you'd be competing against a pro who does nothing else. At least with chance you have a chance :)

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#207

Post by dolmen » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 8:58 AM UTC

hipadev23 wrote: post #94

After last year, Caesars likely has a large insurance policy covering against ransomware attacks. That policy probably says something along the lines of "valid as long as you don't knowingly invite tens of thousands of hackers to your property"

Best hypothesis so far.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#208

Post by apapapa » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 8:59 AM UTC

killjoywashere wrote: post #105

You know, why the fuck is DEFCON in August, in Vegas? Like, you know a nice place to visit in August? Kodiak, Alaska. Portsmouth, Maine. Sydney. List of places I would never want to visit in August? Vegas. Houston. Vegas. New Orleans. Vegas. Mumbai? Maybe. Baghdad? Definitely not. Also, Vegas. My friends in Christ, why, does anyone, think Vegas is a good idea in August?

I would rather avoid Vegas all year long.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#209

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 9:01 AM UTC

johnnyanmac wrote: post #133

nimos wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt they would cancel a contract already in place for that reason. Not renew the contract - sure. But canceling an already scheduled event because of low revenue per guest doesn't seem very likely to me? Or maybe it was some sort of ongoing agreement and canceling it was effectively "not renewing".

>But canceling an already scheduled event because of low revenue per guest doesn't seem very likely to me? Not to be TOO snarky, but given how quickly corporate cancels employee labor despite rising revenue, it would not surprise me for other corporate to also cancel "low paying customers" for "high paying customers". Loyalty is beyond dead so cancelling a contract is just a cost of business if they feel the alternat…

> it would not surprise me for other corporate to also cancel "low paying customers" for "high paying customers"

At least going by all the entrepreneurship articles I've read over the decade, "firing your customers" is a term of art, and a recommended approach for dealing with unprofitable and/or annoying customers - so I guess this shouldn't be surprising.

> Loyalty is beyond dead so cancelling a contract is just a cost of business if they feel the alternative gives more money.

Not to be TOO snarky, but that's kind of the point of contracts - contract cancellation terms aren't an "or else..." threat, but rather an agreed upon exit strategy. Termination fines aren't punishment, they're compensation for inconvenience.

Re: DEF CON 32 Was Canceled. We Un-Canceled it

#210

Post by buzzert » Mon, Feb 05, 2024, 9:05 AM UTC

IshKebab wrote: post #188

Eji1700 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vegas makes a fuckload of money off everyone who thinks they’re smart but doesn’t understand statistics

Not just statistic. There are plenty of smart defcon people who understand statistics but don't understand that if you start winning they'll just kick you out.

Not sure that's true, actually. The usual strategy appears to be to comp the gambler with generous stays at the casino they're a patron of, with the expectation that they'll dump their winnings back in the next day.

Taken with a grain of salt, as my only knowledge of this is via Hollywood movies. It does make sense from a game theory perspective though.