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Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

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201–210 of 273 posts

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#201
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem as far as handling it like a trade issue. China doesn't allow such social media networks from the US. I got no problem banning theirs.

China doesn't have any problem executing suspected spies without trial, does that mean the US should too? The US has a constitution that gives people rights; the government can't just do whatever it wants. Regardless of your personal opinion on TikTok it doesn't change that it's a product used and loved by millions of Americans, and banning it has a meaningful negative impact on them.

That escalated quickly. The topic above isn’t about espionage (which also have penalties in the US), it’s about what type of regulations the government should place on foreign social media companies like TikTok or unfortunately in this case, against it’s own citizens that use them.

You might see wonderful flowers, rainbows, and ads for friendship bracelets while another person might see death, destruction, conspiracy theories, and ads for food prepping. Selective targeting is a power that politician have wanted for many decades. That was last available through Facebook Ads and became controversial years later with Cambridge Analytica.

On one hand, TikTok might be powerful enough to change the outcome of elections in more countries than just the US. On the other hand, access to information is generally a good thing and you want people to be knowledgeable and to make more informed decisions.

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#202
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the longer horizon it's probably more useful: Rotting minds, sowing discord, making users depressed, addicted and stupid, derailing culture and public discourse. Not unlike the companies who are in that game already (but for different reasons).

> Rotting minds, sowing discord, making users depressed, Nothing that Hollywood and the Western music industry haven't already done to our young minds here Eastern European back in the '80s. It's not Reagan's StarWars madness that made the communist governments fall, but Star Wars the movie itself, and Michael Jackson, and Madonna, and countless other such Western propaganda (because that's what it was, even though I…

Care to elaborate/give further pointers on this?

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The media refers to it as a TikTok ban and its apparent that TikTok is the inspiration, but the RESTRICT act never mentions TikTok specifically. Instead, the act: > proposes that the Secretary of Commerce be given the power to review business transactions involving certain information and communications technologies products or services when they are connected to a "foreign adversary" of the United States, and pose a…

"Undue" national security risk? In contrast to a due national security risk? Who is writing these? ...

Yes. Risks judged reasonable are accepted.

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure that the 1A can scale properly for modernity, though. I agree. I think the modern-day challenge is not that one cannot speak freely, but that their voice cannot compete with institution-sponsored propaganda machines --- after all, humans have limited attention. The situation is arguably worse because it suppresses free speech without being appear to suppress it.

Literacy rates have gone up, minorities have a bigger voice than perhaps ever. Trust in legacy media (propaganda machines) is at an all time low. It seems like the issue is that each voice is a drop in the bucket now while there are naturally giants throwing their weight around. I'm not saying we don't have new problems which need new solutions, but to fault the 1A I feel is misled. In a world where free speech is st…

> legacy media (propaganda machines)

I'd say that qualification requires some upgrade. What's worse than an obvious propaganda machine?

A machine.

As for the 1A --- I didn't mean to fault it; it is not its fault.

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#205
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook is accountable to the US govt in ways that TikTok Why wouldn't it be? TikTok is now a US company with the data of US citizens stored in Austin TX. https://usds.tiktok.com/usds-about https://usds.tiktok.com/usds-myths-vs-facts This is actually insane, the level of paranoia surrounding ByteDance has forced TikTok to jump through a billion hoops that no other foreign company has to and weirder still they did…

@intrasight, my first job out of college in 2000 was for a small dot com owned entirely by a Jewish family in Texas. I was the only non Mandarin speaking software developer in the company. It's not all that uncommon in the tech industry regardless of ownership.

I think it is unusual - even for a small company.

TitTok is not a small company.

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#206
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're directing your peace-time policy based on a hypothetical worst that can be done in war-time Not necessarily. Relations with most countries are either stable, trending positive, or they are not a threat. China is big enough to be a threat with relations that are trending in the wrong direction. I think it's merely trying to make smart policy prediction.

Why is this a smart policy decision, but restarting a draft and cutting the phone and internet lines[1] isn't? You've put a five year timeframe on this! That's a 'we need to act yesterday' in political terms! [1] After all, I can only imagine what will be done in war-time with a telephone connection - and it's not going to be good!

Because the public won't accept cutting internet lines or bringing back the draft, but enough of the voting public might accept a Tik Tok ban.

Seems pretty obvious?

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#207
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

National security arguments can only go so far without falling afoul of Constitutional principles. Earlier versions of this bill failed because their breadth made it clear it could be used in situations not involving China or other 'bad' tech actors. A blanket ban on "Chinese tech" is immeasurably broad, and would harm legitimate business interests. Should Microsoft, Cisco and Oracle stop doing business in the countr…

> Correspondingly, Tencent has holdings in many American companies, Reddit and Twitter being two. Should Reddit be forced to buy out their holdings? I mean, yeah maybe. If there's a real national security risk it would make sense. Not that I think either of those companies are in any way trustworthy, but let's not compound the dangers to the public with CCP interference.

> If there's a real national security risk it would make sense.

Precisely. But as it stands, they even haven't made a case against Tiktok, let alone private investments by Chinese companies.

There's nothing stopping the DOJ from laying charges against Tiktok US (the corporation) if there's evidence of contravening US law. But there is plenty of political hay to be made by suspecting that there might be. What laws, you ask? That too hasn't been clear, which helps explain why these bills fail again and again.

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#208
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rotting minds, sowing discord, making users depressed, Nothing that Hollywood and the Western music industry haven't already done to our young minds here Eastern European back in the '80s. It's not Reagan's StarWars madness that made the communist governments fall, but Star Wars the movie itself, and Michael Jackson, and Madonna, and countless other such Western propaganda (because that's what it was, even though I…

Care to elaborate/give further pointers on this?

[deleted]

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#209
post #77
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK. How about “they’re using the app to spy on us for a Foreign Hostile Government ”

KSA used Pegasus to spy on and murder an american journalist. They're also a major shareholder of twitter.

I’m not really sure what the legal status of Pegasus is. Also, I doubt it’s on 150 million American’s phones, though who knows.

I don’t believe TikTok and Pegasus belong in the same category.

Regarding Twitter, only Elon can answer how much of American’s Twitter data is flowing through KSA, though I believe it’s zero.

Edit: I’m fully behind any moves to ban Pegasus.

Re: Lawmakers shift gears on TikTok ban

#210
They can start banning pre installed social media apps, including TikTok. My mom bought a new Samsung phone and the onboarding process automatically installed facebook and tiktok spyware plus candy crush as "recommended apps". What's next, pre installed gambling apps?
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