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On Becoming a VP of Engineering

honeycomb.io

201–210 of 400 posts

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering

#201
post #6

> While Charity has deep experience in the domains of infrastructure & operations, databases, and backend engineering, I come originally from design, frontend, and product engineering, and I take a particular joy in collaborating with product management and ux design. I had trouble figuring what they actually did, and what they currently do in their VP role. There's a lot of lip service, but it's not entirely clear w…

On Becoming a VP of Engineering, Part 2: Doing the Job https://www.honeycomb.io/blog/becoming-vp-of-engineering-pt2

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering

#202
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You’re forgetting that companies need both Visionary AND Execution focused leaders at the very top. I'm not forgetting. And I'm not claiming that this promotion was a mistake. I am raising questions about the narrative that the author is telling/selling. Consider how you'll likely not see such a long-winded post from company founders explaining in detail why they chose themselves for their own jobs. They founded a…

What would be your alternative advice?

> What would be your alternative advice?

My alternative advice was basically this: "The best reason to be ambitious is the realization that the people above you are just as flawed as you are."

In other words, don't buy into the myth that your position in the social hierarchy is a natural reflection of your personal worthiness.

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering

#203
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also a lot of ways a company could fail due to randomness. In fact, many more failure modes than success modes. Startup success definitely includes some luck, but luck alone does not define success. Clubhouse is a great example of that. Lucky, but never found a retention strategy and wasn’t managed well enough to adapt. Startup success requires skill and countless hours of hard work, period, and the leaders…

I agree: Conflict resolution, public speaking, salesmanship -- they're all valuable. They make for better people in this world. When it comes to how these traits translate to the success of leaders or companies? I have no idea. I'd guess causation there is noisy. I bet leaders get a lot of mileage out of bullshit like playing surreptitious games for social capital, managing risk in decision making by offloading it an…

> I bet leaders get a lot of mileage out of bullshit like playing surreptitious games for social capital, managing risk in decision making by offloading it and/or shifting blame, carefully crafting turn-of-phrase to manipulate people against their own self-interest -- especially in favor of a compensation structure that has senior leadership making 300:1 versus their lowest paid workers.

That would be a bad bet. There are a few leaders that are like this and build short-term successful companies, and there are fewer yet that are like this and are able to build long-term successful ones. There will always be sociopaths who are master manipulators, but it isn’t limited to leadership. I know plenty of engineers who get hired at multiple roles illegally and outsource their jobs to fiverr, and if they get caught they simply quit before or after a PIP and get a new gig.

The vast majority of leaders really do care, and these stories and assumptions do those leaders a disservice, because good leadership/management takes real effort, time, and hard work. Manipulation quickly loses you the trust of your team and causes them to leave, hurting your cause.

> Like, why in the hell do we need company values? Never understood why workers collectively put up with that patronizing, condescending nonsense.

Retention. If you can find a set of people who share a common set of values, they are easier to retain because everyone is aligned on where we need to get and how we want to get there.

Alignment is extremely important for success. A founder can force alignment for a while, but the whole company is far better off if alignment occurs due to intrinsic belief systems.

> But I guess they're there for some poor shmuck that doesn't know himself otherwise and will warp his identity to them and put in 15 extra hours per week for the privilege. You gotta feel for his wife and kids though, don't you?

That’s not the point of having values. When we came up with them for Tinfoil, they came from the team and we debated and reviewed them annually, and changed them as needed.

The point was to make sure we are on the same page when it comes to hiring, and it also helped in two other ways:

1) Making hiring more objective. No more “I didn’t think she fit our culture” nonsense. Now you had to point to specific examples which were antithetical to our values. If we didn’t get to see a certain one, it told us what to ask next.

2) Making it easier for peers to managers to call out problems. If someone was out of line, or suggesting something that flew in the face of a value we’d agreed upon, anyone was enabled to politely point out that was against our values. The rule in how to respond to that was a polite thank you for pointing it out, and we never really ran into issues with it.

What I found fascinating was that by having this set of values, engineers and others were actually more likely to point out a manager’s or exec’s issue, and did so. When they did, they were almost always right, and things got adjusted.

But what I found exceptionally surprising was how much it helped engineers talk to each other in the office. When you have a common set of beliefs and things you want to do to embody, it’s much easier to maintain alignment.

Also, we were upfront about these before the offer; nobody had to join, and all of our values were argumentative. That is, they were active opinions that could trivially be disagreed with and cogent arguments could be made against them. That was ok! This was what we wanted to do.

An example of a bad value: innovation. Literally nobody wants to not be innovative. Terrible value, gets nothing across.

An example of a good value: use the right tool for the job. We strongly believed in being polyglots and using the right tool for the job, rather than building with what we already knew (unless that was the right tool). Plenty of companies make the argument that we are all Python because then we all speak the same language and things are faster to build. That’s a legitimate argument, neither is right or wrong; but we picked the former. If you preferred the latter, there are plenty of places to work that fit better!

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>After a while you merit your position by not running the company into the ground, but instead making it succeed. That's not merit for the position but not being a five alarm dumpster fire at the position. There is a difference. As long as the company is lucky or there's enough overall competence in leadership or they hired the right employees that incompetence may not be destroy the company. That doesn't mean they'r…

Almost all new businesses fail. Calling every one of those failed founders, Eg, of coffee shops, or software companies, or board game stores, a dumpster fire—is an asshole move

If A then B does not mean if B then A.

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering

#205
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the CEO walks the company can very reasonably find another stiff in a suit that can run the show. Maybe at a slightly slower or more conservative pace but life moves on. If 80% of the engineering team walks your company catches fire and burns to the ground. The greatest case study we've seen is Twitter. Everything above contributor level is some varying degree of spreadsheet monkeying. Anyone with 20 years of runn…

I've much rather bet on a company with a great CEO and mediocre developers than one with a mediocre CEO and great developers. If you're building the wrong product it doesn't matter if Carmack or Linus is writing the code the company will fail. And judging from the code and technical competence I've seen, it's isn't uncommon for a company to succeed with mediocre devs > You can teach most engineers to sell, lead, and…

Exactly this. I worked at a small startup where we had great engineering talent. It was hard to find in this area. We got a product built, shipped, running with beta B2B customers... then it fell flat on its face.

After the initial release, there was little to no marketing, poor go-to-market strategy, and slow sales. This was all the CEO's realm. Sales and marketing is hard.

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re forgetting that companies need both Visionary AND Execution focused leaders at the very top. I’m an execution through and through guy, but I learned early on that my co-founder’s ideal traits are the opposite of mine, and that’s what you’re seeing here. What’s being described is a classic Visionary - spontaneous, jumps around and can be distracting, yes - but crucially, is also an amazing innovator and motivat…

I was founding engineer ("CTO") of a startup a couple years ago, and I completely agree. We had the CEO who had domain expertise in our market, but who had never ran a tech company and was not technically proficient. I on the other hand was technically proficient, but I also never ran a tech company. This lack of execution expertise doomed us; we really needed a strong operations role. We made good progress on the pr…

I was in a similar position, working as CTO under a first time CEO where we built a small team, product, got some limited traction, but follow-on execution completely failed. It was incredibly hard. It depresses me to this day, thinking about where it all went wrong. I probably won't ever do it again.

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering

#207
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, I didn’t read that at all as a remark about someone’s qualifications. It seems a straightforward and friendly admission of where 2 different styles exist. Acknowledging those style differences is a _good_ and healthy thing and not a tacit appeal to hierarchy. Second, your whole comment is littered with implicit reinforcement of the hierarchy. You use terms like underling, bosses, and equate the founding of the…

In modern, tech-enabled knowledge industries managers aren't leaders, they are just a waste of money that could instead go to the people actually getting things done.

This isn't 100% true. Some are good leaders and protect their team from BS and distractions, letting them focus on getting things done instead.

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering

#208
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the UE and I get an extra cookie banner (with a design not matching the website's) on top of the "standard" one. This extra banner has a "Reject all cookie" clearly visible and clickable.

It showed me the reject all on top of the accept all. Clicking reject all left me looking at the accept all banner. Only options were "accept all" or bounce. This doesn't speak highly of their frontend team with the "I am very smart" undertone other comments mentioned.

Yeah I think it was similar for me.

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering

#209
post #148

VP of Engineering isn't some standard role you can compare across companies. My current company, Directors often have orgs of up to 500, and VPs usually have 1k+, sometimes 3-5k. To pretend that a VP at a startup, with an org of 50 is the same as a VP at an FAANG with 1k+ is just silly. I'm not saying one is better, but clearly they require very different skills. In fact, I've seen first hand that people who are give…

I used to work at a small 40 person company that had a VP and director for a department of 2 people (not engineering.) Utterly insane. Based on my experience, the VP has the experience of an intern at a larger org, but was there early. Director is worse. The 2 reports are competent.

Re: On Becoming a VP of Engineering

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiring the right people is competence when it comes to corporate leadership. That's pretty much the only lever they have. Sure they make a few strategic decisions, but for the most part they are just reviewing and signing off on things that get bubbled up. I think this bothers a lot of engineers who pride themselves on being able to understand complex things, and see "soft skills" as something ancillary and lesser. I…

> Hiring the right people is competence It can be, or it can just be luck, which is the point of the comment you're responding to.

Sure, but it's always both in large scale human endeavor. We're not talking about virtuosic performance that is more or less the direct result of talent + obsessive practice. That's why I'm equally uninterested in those who claim it's all luck as those who worship and hang on every word of prominent tech billionaires. I'm more interested in applying human agency than trying to come up with a theory for success—the latter is inevitably biased navel-gazing.
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