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CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

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Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#201

Post by maccard »

msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

31mpg is pretty low, even for us gallons. The most sold l car in the UK is (shockingly) the nissan qashqai. They get about 48mpg in imperial gallons which is about 40mpg for the US.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#202

Post by geysersam »

theK wrote: post #110
Akronymus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not have a choice in the matter as more and more countries are thinking of/implementing ICE bans in the near future.

I’m afraid these bans get systematically sabotaged by well funded ice lobby groups. Just look at what happened to the EU’s ice ban for personal vehicles. Spoiler: while new gasoline burning cars are technically banned after 2035 it will be completely legal to sell new gasoline burning cars by labelling them e-fuel only…

Why would anyone want to use e-fuel in 2035 instead of electricity?

(Except for "luxury" brands that just want to be special to distinguish themselves from the rabble.)

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#203

Post by VulgarExigency »

maccard wrote: post #194
onion2k wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BMW claim that a diesel 3 series will get 61mpg. Volkswagen reckon a Golf 2.0 TDI will do 68mpg. Electric is still significantly better, but you didn't need pick a terrible diesel car as an example.

Even more confusingly, what the US calls a gallon isn't the same as what other countries call the gallon. It's about a 20% difference.

Not that confusing, only the US measures fuel in gallons, isn't it? Everyone else just uses liters.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#204

Post by cultureswitch »

theK wrote: post #110
Akronymus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not have a choice in the matter as more and more countries are thinking of/implementing ICE bans in the near future.

I’m afraid these bans get systematically sabotaged by well funded ice lobby groups. Just look at what happened to the EU’s ice ban for personal vehicles. Spoiler: while new gasoline burning cars are technically banned after 2035 it will be completely legal to sell new gasoline burning cars by labelling them e-fuel only…

The timelines for ICE bans within a decade are ridiculous from a technology and market standpoint and terrible for the environment.

The best car technology is the one you don't use much. And we already have decades of cars in good enough condition to be driven weekly rather than daily.

EVs will barely scratch the surface of environmental issues with transportation. And they will create a new range of supply problems while also not solving traffic congestion issues that plague our cities.

It would be far more preferable to encourage people to use the same car for longer and especially to leave it in the garage when they can use other modes of transportation. Or, use car sharing rather than a personal car.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#205

Post by Tade0 »

prox wrote: post #178
Tade0 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we'll just go full circle and gasoline will be available at pharmacies: https://radair.com/blog/2011/11/10/automotive-history-benz/

Wondering… Is it possible to make tiny refineries for say a town or area? So locally produced or is that a environmental nightmare?

There's a refinery next to one of the highways exiting Vienna, Austria:

https://www.google.com/maps/@48.147145,16.5005479,3a,75y,168...

People live on the other side of that highway, so I guess it's possible, but I used to drive through that area on a regular basis and the smell hard to forget.

Apart from that such facilities need to be large to be cost-effective.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#206

Post by actionfromafar »

prox wrote: post #178
Tade0 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we'll just go full circle and gasoline will be available at pharmacies: https://radair.com/blog/2011/11/10/automotive-history-benz/

Wondering… Is it possible to make tiny refineries for say a town or area? So locally produced or is that a environmental nightmare?

Many engines can be converted to run on ethanol.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#207

Post by tecleandor »

onion2k wrote: post #185
msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

BMW claim that a diesel 3 series will get 61mpg. Volkswagen reckon a Golf 2.0 TDI will do 68mpg. Electric is still significantly better, but you didn't need pick a terrible diesel car as an example.

The Cruze is way better than that anyway, you'd need to be in an excruciating traffic jam to get that low mileage.

Well, my 12 years old (gas) Honda Fit does +40MPG being very "pedal happy" and near 50 driving normally, and my dad's 20 years old (diesel) Citroen Xsara Picasso does around 60MPG

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#208

Post by vixen99 »

matsemann wrote: post #101
paganel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have a choice because, on paper, we do have a choice in choosing those countries’ politicians. I know I’ll never give my vote to a politician keen on banning gasoline cars. It’s sadly also true that the technocrats actually taking those decisions are a lot less directly accountable, but nothing that a second “yellow vests” movement won’t be able to fix.

Why is it so important for you to be able to pollute a bit more when commuting?

Important also to consider the degree to which we choose (while improving our own environment) to get others to pollute on our behalf and suffer the consequences - as in the extensive environmental damage caused by lithium and cobalt mining. This is not an argument against EV or renewables by any means but let's ensure we maintain a realistic assessment of all pros and cons. Up to 70% of cobalt is produced in the Congo where up to 200,000 people work for around $3 a day. This is a good wage locally which conveniently translates to an excellent price for us in the West to enjoy clean air cities.

https://earth.org/lithium-and-cobalt-mining/

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#209

Post by antibasilisk »

leoedin wrote: post #189
msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

The big reason for this is thermodynamics. A conventional internal combustion engine car has to convert chemical energy to kinetic energy - the absolute best theoretical efficiency of this might be 70%, but in practice it's more like 30%. Electric cars have to pay the same thermodynamic penalty, but they pay it at the power station (In practice, thanks to renewables, not all the electricity used to charge a car will…

>The big reason for this is thermodynamics.

Yes it usually is

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#210

Post by plantain »

msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

225Wh/km is very high. I see more like 140-160Wh/km driving 80-100km/h on a M3.
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