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I worked at Google for -10 days

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Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#201

Post by UncleMeat »

alfanick wrote: post #149
slymon99 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

literally no big tech employer is going to allow you to add clauses to your employment contract

Then you tech employee are not big enough. Of course they can do this. Goes to HR, Hiring Manager, HM approves sends back to HR, HR sends to legal, HM pings because legal is slow, bam it's done. Everything can be done between humans.

It can be done. As in, the systems won't spontaneously combust if people try to do this.

But the number of people who can pull this off is unimaginably small. Even for highly desirable hires the immediate response is going to be "we don't do custom contracts, end of story."

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#202

Post by smolder »

mattw2121 wrote: post #110
bojo wrote: post #48

I've had a similar story happen in the past. I was living in Japan looking for remote jobs and came across Couchbase. Interviewed well with the team who all seemed excited to get someone with my experience on board, however, the hiring manager said he wasn't sure he wanted to manage someone in my timezone. He pulled me into a separate call at the end of the rounds and asked some weird questions, which in hindsight we…

Never put in notice until background checks and all on boarding paperwork is 100% complete. Putting in notice on an offer letter is premature and, unfortunately, leads to bad results.

I'm sure the parent poster recognizes this is good advice in retrospect. It's a good lesson for others to learn vicariously, though.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#203

Post by AlwaysRock »

yebyen wrote: post #167
mattw2121 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never put in notice until background checks and all on boarding paperwork is 100% complete. Putting in notice on an offer letter is premature and, unfortunately, leads to bad results.

How's that supposed to work, when the process dictates that onboarding begins on your start date? If only we could give -10 days notice.

Then you give -10 days notice. 2 weeks is a nicety and not legally required in the USA. Probably not required in many other places as well. It's unfortunate but I've never had a manager get too upset about it.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#204

Post by jrochkind1 »

xienze wrote: post #185
mattw2121 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never put in notice until background checks and all on boarding paperwork is 100% complete. Putting in notice on an offer letter is premature and, unfortunately, leads to bad results.

In previous jobs I’ve always given notice after receiving an offer. In hindsight, I realize that was pretty dumb, but it was a different time, long ago. Going forward I will absolutely wait until my first day on the new job to give notice to the old one. It’s not fair to either employer, but getting an offer pulled after quitting an existing job scares the hell out of me.

> Going forward I will absolutely wait until my first day on the new job to give notice to the old one.

So... you'll give -1 days notice? "Hey old boss, you may have noticed I didn't come in today..."

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#205

Post by lotsofpulp »

300bps wrote: post #156
mattw2121 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never put in notice until background checks and all on boarding paperwork is 100% complete. Putting in notice on an offer letter is premature and, unfortunately, leads to bad results.

I’ve had a career lasting over three decades and counting. Have never gone a day without a job in that time. Part of the reason is because I followed your exact advice. To which I would also add - don’t have a big gap between your last day at your current job and your first day at your next. Simply walking in the door on your first day increases the amount of paperwork they have to file to get rid of you.

> Simply walking in the door on your first day increases the amount of paperwork they have to file to get rid of you.

How? I have fired an employee for walking in on their first day smelling like cannabis and being high as a kite and it did not it change any “paperwork” I had to do. Everywhere in the US has at will employment, so barring a union agreement, all the employer has to do is document that they no longer want to employ the person anymore.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#206

Post by logicalmonster »

stdbrouw wrote: post #52
sashank_1509 wrote: post #7

There’s no great solution to this apart from the economy and company doing well so that this doesnt happen. I’ll lay out the reasons below: 1. Let’s say we pass a law that prevents offers from being revoked. This will make hiring much harder and increase 5 rounds to like 10 and involve many more committees and even then most candidates other than sureshots getting rejected. 2. Ban revoking offers only for overseas em…

> Let’s say we pass a law that prevents offers from being revoked. This will make hiring much harder and increase 5 rounds to like 10 and involve many more committees and even then most candidates other than sureshots getting rejected. I don't see what one has to do with the other. You only extend an offer after you've vetted the candidate, and afterwards there is no more screening, so sudden revocation doesn't have…

> I don't see what one has to do with the other.

It is incredibly connected. There is business risk introduced for making an offer. Increasing that risk means that the vetting process can be increased to make up for that extra risk incurred. If companies feel they need 4 or 5 rounds of interviews today before making an offer and you all of a sudden mandate that there's more of a risk for making an offer, they might decide on an extra round or two of interviews to try and be even more certain about their decision.

Personally I think a lot of the issues around hiring could be solved by making firing much more trivial and less risky for businesses: this would make a lot of the process around hiring and the many extra rounds of interviews less important. Companies would be a lot more incentivized to give people they like a shot and see if they can hack it in a role or not. This would IMO be a big improvement for say self-taught developers or those with non-traditional backgrounds who can get easily dismissed because they present more of a risk than somebody who went to X good school and worked at big corporation for Y years.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#207

Post by ivalm »

300bps wrote: post #165
dgrin91 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A much simpler solution I have seen to this that is _actually_ used in big companies is just relocation bonus paid on start. In short it basically goes 'Company agrees to pay you $X flat for your relocation. You are entitled to do whatever you want with this money, no questions asked. You may keep this money presuming you are not terminated for cause within Y months' X and Y negotiable of course.

All of my “paid on start” bonuses/reimbursements were paid weeks after I started, often with my first paycheck.

The point is that they would owe you this even if they let you go immediately. Obviously they implement it in a way that’s easier on their payroll system.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#208

Post by JamesBarney »

yebyen wrote: post #167
mattw2121 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never put in notice until background checks and all on boarding paperwork is 100% complete. Putting in notice on an offer letter is premature and, unfortunately, leads to bad results.

How's that supposed to work, when the process dictates that onboarding begins on your start date? If only we could give -10 days notice.

You push back the start date until they've finished that process. It's a common request, I've made it several times, my wife has made it several times and it's always been granted in my experience.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#209

Post by AlwaysRock »

ResearchCode wrote: post #163
bojo wrote: post #48

I've had a similar story happen in the past. I was living in Japan looking for remote jobs and came across Couchbase. Interviewed well with the team who all seemed excited to get someone with my experience on board, however, the hiring manager said he wasn't sure he wanted to manage someone in my timezone. He pulled me into a separate call at the end of the rounds and asked some weird questions, which in hindsight we…

What difference does it make if you're at-will. You could be let go on the first day, no reason given.

Sure. There is risk in any job change. The point here is leaving a job and being boned by the company you are joining because of their own internal fuck up.

Re: I worked at Google for -10 days

#210

Post by H8crilA »

digitalgangsta wrote: post #47

Seems Google treats its employees like they treat their customers. My experience with Google as a customer is just as frustrating (have had corporate accounts locked out with no avenue for recourse except sending emails over weeks, to simply be denied again because their bots think I'm doing something strange, and products my company was relying on and using simply stop being supported one day). I stopped using or su…

It's all correct, though they do pay good money. Otherwise it's just a large, messy organisation where blame deflection is everyone's basic survival strategy. This is for example why he got such cryptic messages all the way through, nobody wanted to tell him that things are actually shit and unlikely to result in an employment before their boss' boss' boss announces that this is the case.
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