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Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

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Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#201

Post by cvak »

deepGem wrote: post #181
tarsinge wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My meandering point is that: everyone has different life situations Yes, so it's not about preferences, it's not about the pros and cons, it's about not forcing people for needless suffering. Forcing people who want or need (professionally or personally) to work with other people at home is absurd, and forcing people who provide better work at home (for jobs were it makes no difference to be in office) to commute a…

The consistent response I have gotten from managers is that more or less - people fake work sitting in their homes or work multiple jobs, and we collaborate better when we are sitting in an office. They use this as a force function to pull employees back into the office. I call BS on all of these. Employees faking work - your hiring problem. Employees working multiple jobs - again your problem, keep them occupied wit…

> Employees working multiple jobs

I got at least 2 colleagues that were working multiple jobs from the office, of course it wasn't 4 hours straight, but committing fixes to their 2nd job/ mini-startup they started was extremely common.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#202

Post by cdelsolar »

mikewarot wrote: post #136
shrikant wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I often try and struggle to explain my thoughts on this, but I'll try again.) I keep hearing here in the UK that the reason people aren't having kids is because it's so expensive, and I do what you do -- point people at the stats in Scandinavia where a huge chunk of childcare costs is borne by the state, and yet the birth rates are dropping. My theory on this, and one that I personally felt as well, is that there's…

As Peter Zeihan puts it: When you have kids on the farm, they are free labor, and you have as many as you can. If you move into the city, they become noisy, expensive hobbies, and people aren't stupid, they have fewer of them.

Hmm. Well I have an awesome open source app / side project that I have very little time to work on, and my plan for it has always been to create enough kids to code on it for free

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#203

Post by lucidguppy »

I could be convinced to commute to a satellite office that's not affected by rush hour traffic. There's a lot of real estate available in the burbs. These don't really exist though, and their expense far outweighs their benefits.

The problem is that companies expect employees to be mobile when they are not. It's called putting down roots for a reason. Pulling kids out of school, buying a new house is very disruptive.

... or I can hook up my cable modem and work anywhere in the country...

Corporate elites cannot have their cake and eat it too.

Choose one:

1) Make housing affordable, and schooling more effective. Streamline the moving process through law and process improvements. Make transportation systems work better. Improve 2nd and 3rd tier cities social and political life.

2) Let people work from home. Suffer a 10-15% degredation in communications.

3) Have the entire industry force people to come to the office - have miserable workers.

For me option 2 seems to be what will happen - you'll get a control loop where companies will hemorrhage their best workers if they force back to office.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#204

Post by DogLover_ »

taude wrote: post #196

I'm curious if other's have been experiencing this. I'm at my second job now where there's a big push to off-shore to India. If you can be remote, to an exec, they might not see it too differently between you and offshore, except for how much better the bottom line is. We're even hiring roles that I thought I'd never see moved over there, too, like Product Managers. I bet we'll see this trend increase. Since this is…

Same here. What I found curious though is that the push is coming from the investors and not from the company itself.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#205

Post by yrgulation »

mikkelam wrote: post #197

european single male pov: 1. I like my 30 minute bike ride to work 2. I like the social interaction, laughing, chatting and atmosphere of my office 3. I am less productive, but I'm not a machine. I (should) care about my well being more 4. I still work from home once in a while. Flexibility is key But, everyone is different. I totally understand many people have a lot more reasons than me to work remotely

[dead]

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#206

Post by lotsofpulp »

ryanjshaw wrote: post #123
dustedcodes wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I work from home as a new dad of a nearly 8 month old girl now. The first 3 months I took off work to be a full time dad, but since then I've returned back to a 4 day work week and when I work Monday to Thursday I am not distracted by my baby girl at all. I have a separate room as an office, if the door is closed then it means no interruptions. My wife is still on maternity leave so she is free to do the…

Parent was indeed slightly incorrect. Up until maybe 2-3yrs they are little angels. Then everything changes. I would take 8 hours at the office over 8 hours with a high energy 4 year old. It would be way less exhausting.

My experience would say up until they are walking/crawling (assuming they sleep). After that, it was 24/7 duty to watch for falls, climbing, and by 15months or so, they are stacking things to get to get to higher places.

My daughter slept like an angel, my son has not slept through a single night since he was 5 months old.

When people lived in tribes (or even villages), I doubt one or two adults were responsible 24/7 for a toddler. There are a chain of younger to older children playing and looking after each other, as well as elders.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#207

Post by NickBusey »

paulcole wrote: post #200
tarsinge wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My meandering point is that: everyone has different life situations Yes, so it's not about preferences, it's not about the pros and cons, it's about not forcing people for needless suffering. Forcing people who want or need (professionally or personally) to work with other people at home is absurd, and forcing people who provide better work at home (for jobs were it makes no difference to be in office) to commute a…

I hate this idea that anyone is “forcing” anyone to do anything. And I see the word used so often in the remote work conversations. It’s like saying that Tesla “forces” people to work on electric cars. It’s what their business is! You’re not being forced to commute if your job is in-office anymore than you’re forced to eat canned asparagus if it’s the only vegetable in your cupboard. You can choose to not eat it or y…

I hate this idea that you either have to be happy with 100% of your job, or you have to find a new one.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#208

Post by benji-york »

orangepurple wrote: post #169
misja111 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that another part of the explanation is, that most couples who do have kids, only have one or two. That sort of ticks the box for life fulfillment goal 'kids', you don't need to have three or more for that.

The reason most Westerners have only two kids is because they don't have a social support group which can take turns raising the extra children. The practical limit for a two-parent household is two kids if they are of a similar age and one partner is taking care of the kids full time. Beyond two kids you're pretty much going to start having to neglect someone some of the time simply because each kid demands so much…

As someone with four children who lived most of their early lives a thousand miles away from any established support network, I didn't find this to be true.

On the contrary, the marginal cost of each child decreased with increased help from their siblings.

Perhaps the given scenario is true in "helicopter parenting" modes, but we don't generally employ those.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#209

Post by schwartzworld »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #63
FooBarWidget wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people don't have a home office, or even a basic desk + chair setup that's suitable for long hours of computer work. A colleague of mine prefers going to the office because at home he's constantly distracted by kids. Another has literally injured himself due working from his kitchen in a bad position for a year. It's worse than RSI. He had to rehabilitate for half a year just to get back to 95% health, and even…

Depending on circumstances, what you save on commuting could allow you to upgrade your living with an extra room. Commuting costs are easily underestimated but a honest look might reveal that they are substantial: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/06/the-true-cost-of-...

Where I live, the people with long commutes are more likely to live outside the city in a house with an extra room. It's the urban apartment dwellers that don't have the extra space.

An extra bedroom in most parts of metro Boston is like an extra $1000-1500, even in the close suburbs. An unlimited pass for public transit is $90/month. A blue bike annual membership is that much per year. It doesn't even come close.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#210

Post by orangepurple »

benji-york wrote: post #208
orangepurple wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason most Westerners have only two kids is because they don't have a social support group which can take turns raising the extra children. The practical limit for a two-parent household is two kids if they are of a similar age and one partner is taking care of the kids full time. Beyond two kids you're pretty much going to start having to neglect someone some of the time simply because each kid demands so much…

As someone with four children who lived most of their early lives a thousand miles away from any established support network, I didn't find this to be true. On the contrary, the marginal cost of each child decreased with increased help from their siblings. Perhaps the given scenario is true in "helicopter parenting" modes, but we don't generally employ those.

How many years apart are the kids?
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