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Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

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Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#131

Post by jxidjhdhdhdhfhf »

shrikant wrote: post #84
misja111 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Scandinavia there is free daycare. It works great, gender inequality in the workplace is amongst the lowest in the world. There is no stigma on bringing your kids to the daycare, like in some traditional Western countries; it is actually the opposite, people feel it's good for kids to be with others of their same age. However birth rates are dropping there as much as in all the other rich countries. So the problem…

(I often try and struggle to explain my thoughts on this, but I'll try again.) I keep hearing here in the UK that the reason people aren't having kids is because it's so expensive, and I do what you do -- point people at the stats in Scandinavia where a huge chunk of childcare costs is borne by the state, and yet the birth rates are dropping. My theory on this, and one that I personally felt as well, is that there's…

Poor people are still having a lot of kids, it's the developed world that has a problem. I think the decline is birthrate is much better explained by material wealth and the corresponding education of women that goes along with it as causes of the drop.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#132

Post by coldtea »

dijit wrote: post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

Well, given that situation, sure office is fine.

It's like "I'm fine with going to the office, though mine has a top class chef, free booze, an infinity pool, and cheerleaders, oh and all my personal friends work there, and it's right next door to me".

But liking vs not liking it is not the point (as it varies, as you said, between people, and also over time: e.g. someone might not have kids now, but they might get. Or they might need to rent elsewhere and have a much longer commute). The real point is whether people are given the option to go or not: then they have the power to make the decision.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#133

Post by SCdF »

I have managed to mangle my wrists so much over the years that I now almost exclusively use my computer with voice and an eye tracker.

I will never work in an office again, unless the company I work for wants to pay for me to have a private office with a door that closes, and pay to duplicate my home set up (~£1000+).

Even then:

- it just seems moronic for me to spend my own free time on commuting. So I would also want my company to pay for that, both in transport fees and in my time.

- it's very inconvenient to have to bring a packaged lunch to work, or wasteful to buy one every day.

- I can control my own temperature, my own noise levels, and take breaks when I feel my performance lagging, not when it's socially appropriate to do so

I think it's totally fine to come to an office occasionally to collaborate or celebrate, but doing it every day or even once a week is valueless

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#134

Post by mikewarot »

mschuster91 wrote: post #101
Hackbraten wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> primary school do not allows them to get out without me Please tell me you’re joking.

The inevitable result of three things: 1. an absurdly car-friendly society that prioritizes cars well above everyone else - basically, parents have to pick up their children in cars because there is no reasonable pedestrian infrastructure to allow them a safe walking home. 2. a truckload of busybodies ("Karens") that call CPS on children wandering alone - Utah had to pass a law in 2018 [1] to cut down on that crap an…

I blame Otis Toole[1], who confessed (and later recanted) to the kidnapping and murder of Adam Walsh. The hysteria Adam's father was able to create in the United States is astounding. I grew up before that happened, and I was still freaked out the first time my child wanted to walk home from a friends house, 2 blocks away about 10 years ago.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottis_Toole

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#135

Post by prmoustache »

mschuster91 wrote: post #101
Hackbraten wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> primary school do not allows them to get out without me Please tell me you’re joking.

The inevitable result of three things: 1. an absurdly car-friendly society that prioritizes cars well above everyone else - basically, parents have to pick up their children in cars because there is no reasonable pedestrian infrastructure to allow them a safe walking home. 2. a truckload of busybodies ("Karens") that call CPS on children wandering alone - Utah had to pass a law in 2018 [1] to cut down on that crap an…

In my case this is in europe and most people don't even bring their kids by cars because there is almost nowhere to park and because kids are zoned and are expected to go to the nearest public school which is usually in the same neighborhood.

I guess it is just liability. Child abduction is not a problem we are talking a lot in my area, maybe it has been in the past, I don't know I am an expat.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#136

Post by mikewarot »

shrikant wrote: post #84
misja111 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Scandinavia there is free daycare. It works great, gender inequality in the workplace is amongst the lowest in the world. There is no stigma on bringing your kids to the daycare, like in some traditional Western countries; it is actually the opposite, people feel it's good for kids to be with others of their same age. However birth rates are dropping there as much as in all the other rich countries. So the problem…

(I often try and struggle to explain my thoughts on this, but I'll try again.) I keep hearing here in the UK that the reason people aren't having kids is because it's so expensive, and I do what you do -- point people at the stats in Scandinavia where a huge chunk of childcare costs is borne by the state, and yet the birth rates are dropping. My theory on this, and one that I personally felt as well, is that there's…

As Peter Zeihan puts it:

  When you have kids on the farm, they are free labor, and you have as many as you can.
  If you move into the city, they become noisy, expensive hobbies, and people aren't stupid, they have fewer of them.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#137

Post by GoToRO »

saiya-jin wrote: post #109
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Being able to look after your offspring is great! This is a big no and main reason why I am against WFH. Here in Finland we have ample maternity leave and pretty good paternity leave as well, so why in the fuck are we allowing these new fathers to "work" from home while looking after the kid? The mother has maternity leave precisely so she can take care of the kid(s), she should be doing it for the 8 hours you are w…

Nope. You realize that kids need and beg for endless amount of attention from parents long after maternity/paternity leave ends, even in Finland. Its clear from your post you don't have much experience with being around small kids for longer time. Unless you plan to subsidize everybody's maternity leave till kids are teens, then leave is just bare minimum, even at 1 year, heck even at 3 as its back home. In fact, fir…

Your comment also points towards the solution for low natality. In rich countries people want a lot more for their kids. They want to raise the kids themselves and spent a lot more time with them in the unique moments when they are still small. So just pay one parent 12 years to take care of their kid. My guess is natality will jump right back.

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#138

Post by brynjar »

SCdF wrote: post #133

I have managed to mangle my wrists so much over the years that I now almost exclusively use my computer with voice and an eye tracker. I will never work in an office again, unless the company I work for wants to pay for me to have a private office with a door that closes, and pay to duplicate my home set up (~£1000+). Even then: - it just seems moronic for me to spend my own free time on commuting. So I would also wa…

RSI? Would like to hear more about your home set-up

Re: Nearly 40% of software engineers will only work remotely

#140

Post by 3np »

tarsinge wrote: post #95
dijit wrote: post #11

While everyone has their preferences I find myself hating the office a lot less than I used to these days. (and I was very vocal about hating the office pre-covid[0]) However, some things of note: 1) My "Office" (not home) is not an "Open Office", it's a place where I can reasonably sit in peace and have control of my surroundings (this is something not afforded to most people in offices, and something that work from…

> My meandering point is that: everyone has different life situations Yes, so it's not about preferences, it's not about the pros and cons, it's about not forcing people for needless suffering. Forcing people who want or need (professionally or personally) to work with other people at home is absurd, and forcing people who provide better work at home (for jobs were it makes no difference to be in office) to commute a…

Sure. So some people will work for remote-first companies and some people will for for office-first companies.

There's no one-size-fits all and different companies will work with different models. You're not forced to work at any particular company and no company should be expected to be the right place for all profiles.

(Within that the employer of course does have responsibilities to accommodate employee differentiating needs, some of which is in scope of regulation and contracts)

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