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What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

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Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#201

Post by kemayo »

technothrasher wrote: post #67

"Here, fill it out again and don't mention that." I had the exact same experience when applying for a clearance while I was in college, for the "have you taken illegal drugs" question. When I honestly answered yes, the interviewer got fidgety and then asked, "well do you take them now?" no. "Do you know any drug users?" We're on a college campus, what would you like me to say? "Well, are you friends with any of them?…

It seems pretty common.

My spouse was considering applying to the Air Force almost 20 years ago (for the language learning school), and got the recruiter very excited after demonstrating excellent scores on the ASVAB... then it all fell apart after they answered some questions honestly about past depression and refused to lie about it on the forms as the recruiter wanted them to.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#202

Post by dragonwriter »

grishka wrote: post #82
technothrasher wrote: post #67

"Here, fill it out again and don't mention that." I had the exact same experience when applying for a clearance while I was in college, for the "have you taken illegal drugs" question. When I honestly answered yes, the interviewer got fidgety and then asked, "well do you take them now?" no. "Do you know any drug users?" We're on a college campus, what would you like me to say? "Well, are you friends with any of them?…

My only experience with serious US government forms was applying for a tourist visa. This form also has some bonkers checkboxes like "do you plan to commit any crimes in the US". Also the entry form they give you on your flight deserves a mention. This one has "did you handle livestock in the last X months" repeated like 3 times in different phrasing. Not as stupid as the first one, but... why? Why is that question t…

> This form also has some bonkers checkboxes like "do you plan to commit any crimes in the US".

The point of this is not to get people to admit their plans.

Its to convert having those inchoate plans into a crime (fraud against the government) that can be prosecuted if discovered without any criminal act after entry (and can be used, with a reduced proof threshold compared to prosecuting crime, as a basis to withdraw status and deny any future application.)

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#203

Post by robcohen »

Symmetry wrote: post #150
matwood wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is surprising because it's the exact wrong thing to do. Past drug use will not disqualify you from a clearance, but lying absolutely will. Depending on the clearance level they will interview a number of people, including second degree connections. I know someone who used to be an investigator, and it surprised me when they told me how often first degree connections would say bad things about their 'friend'.

That's been my impression with myself and several friends going through the process. The defense establishment is looking for honest people without drug abuse problems, not people who've never tried a joint. But I understand the opposite is true when applying for a job in law enforcement.

Police typically have a 5 year period they want for zero drug involvement. The military is more dependent on the position and clearance level, but the max limit numbers are arbitrarily set. They set the numbers high enough to make recruiting possible, but it isn’t based off of any science.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#204

Post by kemayo »

grishka wrote: post #82
technothrasher wrote: post #67

"Here, fill it out again and don't mention that." I had the exact same experience when applying for a clearance while I was in college, for the "have you taken illegal drugs" question. When I honestly answered yes, the interviewer got fidgety and then asked, "well do you take them now?" no. "Do you know any drug users?" We're on a college campus, what would you like me to say? "Well, are you friends with any of them?…

My only experience with serious US government forms was applying for a tourist visa. This form also has some bonkers checkboxes like "do you plan to commit any crimes in the US". Also the entry form they give you on your flight deserves a mention. This one has "did you handle livestock in the last X months" repeated like 3 times in different phrasing. Not as stupid as the first one, but... why? Why is that question t…

I got an immigration official very worried when I was asked whether I'd ever been convicted of any "crimes of moral turpitude" and asked whether they could tell me what that meant before I answered. They had to go print out a dictionary definition.

(I had never been convicted of any crimes, so admittedly I could have just said "no" without causing a scene.)

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#205

Post by dbspin »

grishka wrote: post #82
technothrasher wrote: post #67

"Here, fill it out again and don't mention that." I had the exact same experience when applying for a clearance while I was in college, for the "have you taken illegal drugs" question. When I honestly answered yes, the interviewer got fidgety and then asked, "well do you take them now?" no. "Do you know any drug users?" We're on a college campus, what would you like me to say? "Well, are you friends with any of them?…

My only experience with serious US government forms was applying for a tourist visa. This form also has some bonkers checkboxes like "do you plan to commit any crimes in the US". Also the entry form they give you on your flight deserves a mention. This one has "did you handle livestock in the last X months" repeated like 3 times in different phrasing. Not as stupid as the first one, but... why? Why is that question t…

The livestock question might have been added during the Foot and Mouth epidemic, which could be spread on footwear and necessitated the destruction of livestock in the millions in Ireland and the UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_United_Kingdom_foot-and-m...

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#207

Post by evouga »

sybercecurity wrote: post #180
throwaway2016a wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine has the same experience. They answered yes to the marijuana question and still got clearance. Another friend lied and said no (this was for a college internship so I knew a couple people working there) and got rejected once their story didn't check out with their personal references.

The interview/form is looking for potential blackmail or tendency to lie or obscure facts. If you are honest, that's fine, although they sometimes ask that you are currently using as well and that is a strike against you.

I was talking to an NSA recruiter last year, though, and they told me they routinely report applicants to the FBI for confessing to crimes during a polygraph. So damned if you do, damned if you don’t…

(For a recruiter he did an uncanny job at convincing me never to work for the NSA)

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#208

Post by FpUser »

ckastner wrote: post #148
FpUser wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The investigation was already concluded. Why should person suffer in the future when nothing wrong was done ?

The person wasn't really suffering though, this was just about getting a security clearance. Most people don't have one. I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for a special vetting process to have stricter standards.

Not getting a job and clearance in general over some stupid stuff is "suffering" and if he was not advised to lie he would've left without job / clearance. Basically paying for some stupid course of events. In my opinion shit like this should be automatically wiped out in normal society.

Re: What not to write on your security clearance form (1988)

#209

Post by afarrell »

toss1 wrote: post #198
NikolaNovak wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and No. I have "Considered" stealing from my employer several times. When I was 15 I was a refugee and worked in a Radio-Shack-like store in Croatia. We built PCs in back and sold them in the front. The front and back were separated by a curtain, and highest value items (ram sticks) happened to be stashed on the shelf on the side of the entrance. I realized it would take literally 5 seconds for a customer to reac…

Yup. "Considered" is certainly ambiguous enough to be a failure in the context of a job application. When I was working at IBM, a my manager introduced me in passing to one of his peers who was getting a huge promotion, about three levels up. Why such an unusual promotion? He'd noticed a way that 4 people could conspire to exfiltrate $25 million on a Friday and be in some non-extradition country before it was noticed…

My hunch is that this is a third of the reason why politicians give “politician answers” to things that most people believe are straightforward yes-or-no questions.
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